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Ukraine and Russia: Answering common questions and issues

990 replies

WhatsGoingOn2022 · 05/03/2022 12:29

Hi, I am starting this thread due to the amount of misinformation and speculation I have seen on the boards around what is happening with Russia's war on Ukraine.

While I am by no means a leading specialist, I have a master's degree focusing on the defence and economics aspect of international relations, I work today in politics and have a lot of links in the area. Anything I can't answer I can at least point you to the people who can-- I naturally follow this incredibly closely.

I thought it might be helpful if myself and others with specific knowledge in this area could help to answer any questions you have, on anything from the war, to sanctions, to Russia's actions, to the fallout.

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WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 12:33

Another quick point on Russia and nuclear alert levels (here talking ICBMs): Russia has 4 stages of alert, their weapons are on level 2 of 4. US intelligence and observations on the ground is that they have not actually taken any steps to mobilise these further.

At this point Russia is using it actually as a public relations move (targeting this message at the general public) rather than as a diplomatic one (targeting this threat at world leaders). To put it in the bluntest terms: Russia has not actually taken any steps to signal to world leaders that they intend to make a threat here, or to raise this threat with them. They instead are just floating it to western media knowing that they will turn it into hysterical headlines, in an attempt to scare the public into no longer backing sanctions.

I will lay this out more technically later, but basically this is a very short summary of why people who know about this policy area bang their heads against the ground when they hear the general public panicking about 'nukes!!!'

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WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 12:37

Another developing story that I have seen now confirmed by the International Red Cross: Russia has intentionally utilised landmines on humanitarian corridors from Mariupol to blow up evacuating civilians. So now not only allowing civilians into Russia only (which let's just say is not an offer I'd be taking up...):

www.barrons.com/news/roads-in-ukraine-s-humanitarian-corridor-mined-icrc-01646654707?tesla=y

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WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 12:47

[quote Aristalese]@workisnotawolf That's a really interesting post. I have German friends who also grew up in the 80s (I take it you've meant yourself?) and we've never talked about how Nazi Germany was portrayed in their schools actually. So thank you for sharing this. Sorry, I don't mean to derail the thread, I just wanted to say this to you as your post made me pause.

On the main topic, there is an interesting thread on Twitter by the former Russian foreign minister which Sky News is reporting on on the main breaking news feed, alas I'm too thick to link it and am not on Twitter myself. @WhatsGoingOn2022 perhaps you've come across this by now too and could link up? This is for those posters who shared the view that Russia is/was concerned about NATO expansion and its own borders, as well as for those posters who are particularly concerned about the risk of nuclear war, it addresses all of the main points.[/quote]
Hi yes I have seen this over the last few days: for anyone interested this relates to Andrei Kozyrev, former Foreign Minister of Russia. He worked primarily under Yeltsin and was responsible for much of the modernisation and normalisation of Russia in the world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Kozyrev

I follow him on Twitter and would recommend it for anyone interested, he has been very outspoken on this war.

twitter.com/andreivkozyrev?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

He made a public appeal to Russian diplomats to stop spreading Kremlin propaganda and act as genuine qualified spokespeople: twitter.com/andreivkozyrev/status/1498713596900958210

And I hadn't actually read the specific thread @Aristalese was mentioning until just now, but it's quite nice to see the former Russian foreign minister essentially putting into a nice twitter threat the exact same analysis I have tried to share here. I would urge anyone who is questioning my analysis of Putin's motivations or thinking I am misrepresenting the Russian side to read this:

twitter.com/andreivkozyrev/status/1500610676926005251

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1dayatatime · 07/03/2022 12:48

This is an excellent article in the Financial Times which better explains my fears of how this conflict could spiral out of control to engulf the rest of Europe and the low but real risk of nuclear weapons being used.

amp.ft.com/content/b6bfd338-f2e0-43c2-96f2-0cd918303ea2

The Financial Times to the best of my knowledge is not pro Kremlin or part of Putin's propaganda machine, but happy to be corrected on this.

WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 12:50

For those who don't read twitter, here is former Russian Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev's analysis of the situation:

Lots of discussions about the threat of nuclear war from the Kremlin and whether Putin is rational. I share my thoughts in this thread.

To frame: I do not believe Russia would use nuclear weapons and I believe Putin is a rational actor.

First of all, I want to examine where the questioning of Putin’s rationality started. I think it began because most people, particularly in the West, view his decision to invade Ukraine as utterly irrational. I disagree. It’s horrific, but not irrational.

To understand why the invasion was rational for Putin, we have to step into his shoes. Three beliefs came together at the same time in his calculus:

  1. Ukraine’s condition as a country
  2. Russian military’s condition
  3. The West’s geopolitical condition
  1. Ukraine’s condition. Putin spent the last 20 years believing that Ukraine is not a real nation and, at best, should be a satellite state. Maidan ended any hope of keeping Ukraine independent and pro-Kremlin. He thought the West was behind it.

If Ukraine’s government cannot be kept independent and pro-Kremlin covertly, as he likely concluded, then he will overtly force it to be. He also started to believe his own propagandists that Ukraine is run by a Nazi-Bandera junta. Perfect pretext to “de-Nazify” Ukraine.

  1. Russian military. The Kremlin spent the last 20 years trying to modernize its military. Much of that budget was stolen and spent on mega-yachts in Cyprus. But as a military advisor you cannot report that to the President. So they reported lies to him instead. Potemkin military
  1. The West. The Russian ruling elite believed its own propaganda that Pres. Biden is mentally inept. They also thought the EU was weak because of how toothless their sanctions were in 2014. And then the U.S. botched its withdrawal from Afghanistan, solidifying this narrative.

If you believe all three of the above to be true and your goal is to restore the glory of the Russian Empire (whatever that means), then it is perfectly rational to invade Ukraine.

He miscalculated on all three, but that doesn’t make him insane. Simply wrong and immoral.

So, in my opinion, he is rational. Given that he is rational, I strongly believe he will not intentionally use nuclear weapons against the West. I say intentionally because indiscriminate shelling near a nuclear power plant can cause an unintentional nuclear disaster in Ukraine.

I will take it a step further. The threat of nuclear war is another example of his rationality. The Kremlin knows it can try to extract concessions, whether from Ukraine or the West, by saber-rattling its last remaining card in the deck: nuclear weapons.

The ultimate conclusion here is that the West should not agree to any unilateral concessions or limit its support of Ukraine too much for the fear of nuclear war.

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Wintersonata · 07/03/2022 12:54

The extent of Russia's international exposure is hard to overestimate. The one thing with the potential to undermine it is if countries like China and India seek to help make up the shortfall

I wonder what Xi’s useful idiots in the UK such as Vince Cable and Professor Nolan think about this.

HelpMeHiveMind · 07/03/2022 13:05

Very interesting commentary from Kosyrev there thank you. Sort of reassuring in a strange way.

1dayatatime · 07/03/2022 13:05

Andrei Kozyrev is a well respected former Russian politician who was part of President Yeltsin' pro reform and pro western liberal ideals. Unfortunately he was ousted by more nationalistic factions within Russia culminating in President Putin, he has left Russia now lives in Florida.

He was what I would describe as one of the cooler heads and more experienced Soviet era politicians that has sadly been replaced by the more hot headed nationalist Russian politicians. His analysis on the risk of nuclear conflict is largely based on the cooler headed, logical and experienced political regime of Russia in the early 1990s not the paranoid nationalist Putin regime.

As much as I respect him I would personally rather believe the Financial Times analysis than his views that I believe are out of date.

workisnotawolf · 07/03/2022 13:14

Can I ask one question about persons like Elon Musk who have intense global influence? Will the US government be working with him/on him not to escalate the conflict further?
He has so much money and power. This may sound strange and I have immense respect for the man, but I also worry that he could be a loose cannon. You just have to look at his Twitter comments and huge following.

SallyLockheart · 07/03/2022 13:19

@1dayatatime

This is an excellent article in the Financial Times which better explains my fears of how this conflict could spiral out of control to engulf the rest of Europe and the low but real risk of nuclear weapons being used.

amp.ft.com/content/b6bfd338-f2e0-43c2-96f2-0cd918303ea2

The Financial Times to the best of my knowledge is not pro Kremlin or part of Putin's propaganda machine, but happy to be corrected on this.

Do you have a share token so that we may read it? Behind pay wall.
merrymouse · 07/03/2022 13:19

The Financial Times analysis is basically ‘Russia is threatened by NATO intervention, therefore NATO needs to tread carefully’.

I don’t think anyone has disagreed with that on this thread.

What they have disagreed with is the idea that states that border Russia should not be sovereign because Russia possesses nuclear weapons, because where does that end? Where is the point where ‘mad’ Putin thinks ‘OK, I’ve gone far enough, that’ll do me?’.

WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 13:21

@1dayatatime

This is an excellent article in the Financial Times which better explains my fears of how this conflict could spiral out of control to engulf the rest of Europe and the low but real risk of nuclear weapons being used.

amp.ft.com/content/b6bfd338-f2e0-43c2-96f2-0cd918303ea2

The Financial Times to the best of my knowledge is not pro Kremlin or part of Putin's propaganda machine, but happy to be corrected on this.

Hi so once again what you are posting is intended to imply that what I am saying is incorrect, while linking to sources that back me up. I actually agree with every word of that FT article.

The FT is strict on copyright so I would suggest people read it directly, I won’t quite at length. However it states quite clealry that if there is any nuclear involvement it would most likely be tactical nuclear weapons (please see my earlier post explaining this). It also says that the action from Russia here is sabre rattling and not matched by taking steps on the ground. Further m, while wider use of nuclear weaponry (ie ICBMs, see my earlier post) Remain a possibility they remain “not likely”

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WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 13:23

@1dayatatime

This is an excellent article in the Financial Times which better explains my fears of how this conflict could spiral out of control to engulf the rest of Europe and the low but real risk of nuclear weapons being used.

amp.ft.com/content/b6bfd338-f2e0-43c2-96f2-0cd918303ea2

The Financial Times to the best of my knowledge is not pro Kremlin or part of Putin's propaganda machine, but happy to be corrected on this.

Apologies I don’t have a share token so people can read what it ACTUALLY says but I think I can say pretty confidently that none of this analysis contradicts anything I have stated on the thread. I would welcome others reading this and giving their conclusions on that.
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1dayatatime · 07/03/2022 13:36

@SallyLockheart

Ah I see what you mean by the link, when I clicked on the link it came up with the pay wall.

If you google " Russia's nuclear alert means NATO must tread carefully " and Financial Times you should be able to read the article for free.

For clarity I am genuinely frightened at the low but real risk of the use of tactical battlefield nukes and how this could escalate into a larger nuclear conflict.

As I said before wars are easy to start but difficult to stop and wars are unpredictable and can easily escalate and expand into other countries.

Nidan2Sandan · 07/03/2022 13:44

I'm just wondering how North Korea are viewing this failed power move by Putin. Given their love of a missile, I wonder if the west's response to Putin would stop Kim Jung from needling the world as much?

Wintersonata · 07/03/2022 13:49

I'm just wondering how North Korea are viewing this failed power move by Putin

Presumably it - or its rulers are pro Putin on the grounds of my enemy’s enemy is my friend.

merrymouse · 07/03/2022 13:49

1dayatatime

But you have also said

As per my previous comment wars are easy to start and difficult to end Now that the war has started de escalation is difficult but we can at least not escalate with jingoistic posts or calls for no fly zones.

Nobody has suggested that no fly zones are likely and I can’t see any jingoistic posts.

Your point is very unclear.

1dayatatime · 07/03/2022 14:01

@merrymouse

The President of Ukraine has called for a no fly zone and posts describing the Russians / Putin as neo Nazis, looking to move on to the next country, Hitler like, if we don't stop him in Ukraine it will us next etc etc are both jingoistic and escalating.

Imtootired · 07/03/2022 14:13

I saw you recommend kissingers book earlier and I’m not surprised. It sounds like he could have been one of your tutors and maybe you missed your true calling as a university of Chicago advisor to Pinochet. I can’t even get to all the problems I find in your posts so far but you are either wilfully ignorant or a complete war hawk. For a start saying that an average Ukrainian would like to punch the former president in the face - there is no average citizen anywhere and Ukrainians don’t all think the same way. As for China being behind the scenes in all this - ummm what? Yellow peril!! Scary! The west are asking them to get involved in the peace process but they have no interest in interfering in other countries’ affairs. And saying that their projects in Africa aren’t charity - they don’t claim that, but unlike the IMF they don’t demand that countries de regulate their whole financial systems. And most importantly anyone who knows anything about this region in the past few decades knew this would happen if NATO continued its expansion east. Even your hero Kissinger. But don’t worry the west will fight down to the last Ukrainian. And they will keep sending in weapons until we have a new Al quaeda, this time maybe with Banderite ideology. One question for the expert - do you believe the USA had any influence over the orange “revolution” of 2014? Can’t wait for your answer on that one. Oh and what’s your take on the Iraq war, who were the “barbarians” in that case?

merrymouse · 07/03/2022 14:17

The President of Ukraine has called for a no fly zone

And you can’t imagine why? The point is that other countries have not acted on his suggestion and have explicitly said there is no likelihood of one being implemented.

describing the Russians / Putin as neo Nazis, looking to move on to the next country, Hitler like, if we don't stop him in Ukraine

Have you not noticed what is happening in Ukraine? Do you think he will launch a nuclear bomb because people aren’t being polite? I’m really not seeing the jingoism.

Imtootired · 07/03/2022 14:25

@1dayatatime

Andrei Kozyrev is a well respected former Russian politician who was part of President Yeltsin' pro reform and pro western liberal ideals. Unfortunately he was ousted by more nationalistic factions within Russia culminating in President Putin, he has left Russia now lives in Florida.

He was what I would describe as one of the cooler heads and more experienced Soviet era politicians that has sadly been replaced by the more hot headed nationalist Russian politicians. His analysis on the risk of nuclear conflict is largely based on the cooler headed, logical and experienced political regime of Russia in the early 1990s not the paranoid nationalist Putin regime.

As much as I respect him I would personally rather believe the Financial Times analysis than his views that I believe are out of date.

Do you know what happened to the people in Russia after Yeltsin’s reforms? Their savings disappeared! They were robbed! The life expectancy went down at a rate unbelievable in peace time. WTF. What happened in the 90’s is the main reason why Russia does not trust the west and will not give up its interests.
1dayatatime · 07/03/2022 14:49

Well I now seem to have both sides of the debate against my posts.

1dayatatime · 07/03/2022 14:58

@merrymouse

"Have you not noticed what is happening in Ukraine? Do you think he will launch a nuclear bomb because people aren’t being polite? I’m really not seeing the jingoism."

++++
In a democracy especially the more populist version we have been seeing in recent years, politicians act in accordance with popular opinions.

By ramping up the rhetoric in the press and on social media it emboldens western politicians to take more interventionist and escalating actions / policies, as seen in the summer of 1914. Which in turn runs the risk of the conflict widening to other countries including the low but real risk of tactical nuclear weapons being used. It's not about being impolite, it's about escalation.

WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 15:03

@workisnotawolf

Can I ask one question about persons like Elon Musk who have intense global influence? Will the US government be working with him/on him not to escalate the conflict further? He has so much money and power. This may sound strange and I have immense respect for the man, but I also worry that he could be a loose cannon. You just have to look at his Twitter comments and huge following.
@workisnotawolf a very good point. So this week Elon Musk has provided new internet services for Ukraine, he has also been having direct conversations with Zelensky and has agreed to have him visit when the war is over.

It's becoming an increasing danger in foreign policy that private citizens with no diplomatic training can be such major players. The same can be said for celebrities and corporations. It was ever thus (to some extent) but modern communciations exacerbate it. It means a line taken by a state can be undermined. So yes I totally agree.

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WhatsGoingOn2022 · 07/03/2022 15:07

@Nidan2Sandan

I'm just wondering how North Korea are viewing this failed power move by Putin. Given their love of a missile, I wonder if the west's response to Putin would stop Kim Jung from needling the world as much?
On North Korea: poor Mr Kim has been been having a bit of a bad week, hates to lose the attention! I believe he's done two missile tests in the past week to get some attention back on him.

North Korea is a true example of a (potentially) irrational state actor. Honestly if I were to be be nervous of nuclear Armageddon at this point I would consider them a greater danger than Russia.

North Korea have been backing Putin, they were one of the few to vote in favour of him at the UN General Assembly vote. They also have trade links with China and Russia

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