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The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 04/03/2022 22:14

Following on...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Booklover3 · 05/03/2022 23:37

I’ve been watching some of the Ukrainian protesters interact with the Russian Army. I’m seriously in awe of their courage.

wheresmymojo · 05/03/2022 23:38

@cakeorwine

I wonder when the Russian stock market will reopen?

The Rouble has crashed. Visa and Mastercard have been stopped.

How long can they keep the stock market closed?

I vaguely remember something being said about it opening on Weds but I can't remember where I picked that up from or the basis of it (or even if I'm correct!)

Tigersonvaseline · 05/03/2022 23:38

" I highly doubt these men...."

However.... What about theirs daughters? Beloved asking them... daddy... nuclear war??? Are we taking the rowing boat out this year or Will we just be dead? Beloved son's....dad... will I be asked to fight and die?

They are more loyal to their families than Putin. thankfully there's no ideology too cling to here except that of greed and piracy!!

RedToothBrush · 05/03/2022 23:39

@Anothermnuser

Not sure whether it’s been mentioned but noticed that Clive Myrie and Lyse Doucet haven’t been on BBC News today. I wonder whether they’re trying to get out now?
They have been working crazy, crazy hours. They were saying how exhausted they were.

I think it likely they may simply be having a day off from filming. It is a Saturday. Rather than making the assumption they are trying to get out.

RagzRebooted · 05/03/2022 23:39

theconversation.com/meet-russias-oligarchs-a-group-of-men-who-wont-be-toppling-putin-anytime-soon-178474

For anyone else like me, who wasn't entirely sure what an Oligarch is and how they happened to exist. I googled it Blush

cakeorwine · 05/03/2022 23:40

Clive Myrie was tweeting about Mastermind today. Which I found very surreal. Watching Mastermind knowing he was in Kyiv.

StormzyinaTCup · 05/03/2022 23:41

What else could shock us?? Really???

@Tigersonvaseline I'm struggling to think of anything I must say.
Once all this awful death and destruction is over anything else is going to seem a bit meh surely,

MakeUsACuppa · 05/03/2022 23:41

Mastercard and Visa pulling out of Russia is quite a biggie, surely the Russian underlings of Putin must see that he is a mad man. He is hell bent in bringing the whole world crashing down together with Russia.

I saw the headlines earlier that BoJo was coming up with a plan, all I can think of is Baldrick - misplaced humour but dear god, WTF is going on?

wheresmymojo · 05/03/2022 23:44

Has everyone watched Winter on Fire on Netflix?

If you haven't then I massively recommend watching it - it's a documentary following Maidan 2014 and the ensuing change in leadership from Russian puppet to democratic elections.

It's hugely moving and goes a long way to show how we've ended up where we are and some of the psychology of the Ukrainian civilians.

I would also say that it goes a long way to explaining why the view that 'Ukraine and Russia have been at each other's throats for ages, this is just the latest, etc' really doesn't cover what this war is about.

Yes, everything in Bluebell's PP (as an example) is true but we can't look at Ukraine through the same 'regime/Govt' lens as we do Putin.

Ukraine's people are extremely passionate about freedom and democracy and many of them were (and are) willing to die for it.

It's not just tit for tat at a state level.

vera99 · 05/03/2022 23:47

The Times article in full. Knocks Partygate out of the park.

Boris Johnson’s Russian crony Evgeny Lebedev got peerage after spies dropped warning

Gabriel Pogrund, Harry Yorke
Saturday March 05 2022, 10.00pm GMT, The Sunday Times

The security services withdrew an assessment that granting a peerage to a Russian businessman posed a national security risk after Boris Johnson intervened.
The prime minister pushed ahead with the nomination of his friend Evgeny Lebedev, the Moscow-born son of an ex-KGB agent and media mogul, even after intelligence officials raised concerns.
Johnson is said to have responded to advice to drop it by claiming: “This is anti-Russianism.” In March 2020, the House of Lords Appointments Commission (Holac), which vets peerages, wrote to the prime minister advising him against granting Lebedev, 41, a lifetime seat in the Lords.
Lebedev, who owns the Evening Standard and Independent newspapers, derives his wealth from his father Alexander, 62, a billionaire oligarch. Previously described as a Putin critic, he is thought to retain close ties to the Kremlin and is understood to be in Moscow.
Holac’s objections were based on intelligence provided by MI5 and MI6, relayed to the commission by Cabinet Office security officials. A source with direct knowledge of events said: “Their initial advice was that they considered that there could be a threat to national security ... There was some security concern about the whole situation.”
Johnson, 57, met Lebedev, who has British citizenship, at his home on March 19, 2020, two days after the initial rejection. No 10 will not say what they discussed.
The prime minister returned to Downing Street and took a personal interest in the case. A former adviser said he refused to accept the verdict of the security services and would not drop the issue.
One source said Johnson’s political aides had helped to unblock sensitive peerages to which Holac had objected at around the same time — such as Lord Cruddas of Shoreditch, the former Conservative Party co-treasurer — as they were deemed to be of wider importance to the party.
While they were “pretty disinterested” by Lebedev’s case, Johnson was insistent his peerage “go through”. By June, Holac received an update about Lebedev. Cabinet Office officials advised that the security services no longer deemed his peerage to be problematic. The source said: “The security services withdrew that particular quite damning bit of advice.”
Asked whether the intelligence itself seemed to have changed, they said: “Yes it did. It did. What the intelligence would say was, that with the extra information it got, they felt it wasn’t as big a threat as they had initially thought.”
The commission no longer had any basis on which to advise Johnson against Lebedev’s peerage. The source said: “Faced with that, the committee had no option really [but] to cave in and to agree with it. But there was always concern there.” It approved the peerage.
A source said the strongly held suspicion was that Johnson had asked the security services whether “perhaps their advice could be watered down”.
A second source, a former Downing Street aide, confirmed there had been a change in the security assessment, but they, like other senior officials at the time, did not know the exact circumstances leading up to it. A third source, who also worked in No 10, said they believed a “secret deal” had been done with security officials at the prime minister’s behest.
A former government figure who has dealt extensively with the intelligence agencies said they would not have changed their assessment unless new evidence had been presented to them.

Lebedev, whose father bought the Evening Standard for £1, retains the seat and title for life
Lord Clark of Windermere, the former chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster who sits on Holac, said: “The committee takes every case seriously and investigates it as thoroughly as we can. But we do rely on information from many sources to guide us in our recommendations.” He added: “At the end of the day it’s a matter for the prime minister.”
In July 2020, Downing Street announced the Queen had formally accepted Johnson’s nomination of Lebedev for a peerage. The following December, he was introduced to the chamber as Lord Lebedev of Hampton and Siberia. He is said to have originally opted for the title Lord Lebedev of Moscow but was told there was “no way” that could happen.
He retains the seat and title for life, although since being ennobled he has failed to contribute to a single debate or vote.
Clark was one of several Holac members who were approached but declined to comment on Lebedev’s case. MI5 also declined to comment, saying it was a matter for the Cabinet Office.
Lebedev was presented with a series of allegations, including a description of the events leading up to his peerage. He said “all” of them were incorrect, and the questions did not “merit an answer”. In response, he was specifically asked whether he had discussed the peerage with Johnson at their March meeting. He did not respond. His father did not respond to questions about his ties to the Russian state.
The disclosures shed fresh light on the Lebedevs’ successful penetration of the British establishment.
Johnson’s own ties to the family stem from his time as London mayor. In 2009, the year after he was elected, Alexander Lebedev bought the Evening Standard, a daily newspaper distributed across London, for £1.
He said he had first read the newspaper during his time as a KGB agent stationed in London. It had been a “very good” product with some “brilliant journalists”, he said, and he had no wish to interfere in the editorial output or running of the newspaper.
Instead, that would be supervised by his son. Born in Moscow but educated at a Church of England primary school during his father’s posting, Evgeny, then 28, had become a prominent fixture on the capital’s party scene. Having taken part in secret negotiations to buy the Standard, he was keen to establish himself as a serious businessman and philanthropist.
He proved himself an industrious and effective networker. A few months after the family’s purchase of the newspaper, he helped to persuade an array of socialites, celebrities and politicians to attend a cocktail party and fundraising event for a charity founded by Raisa Gorbacheva, the wife of the former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev. He was among the guests at Stud House, Lebedev’s 18th century house near Hampton Court Palace in west London, alongside the Harry Potter author JK Rowling and Johnson.
Johnson wrote to Lebedev’s father in April 2009, wishing him “all the best” before the mayoral election in Sochi, where he stood as a candidate before being disqualified.
The following year, Lebedev oversaw the last-minute purchase of the Independent newspaper. Shortly afterwards, Johnson wrote to him thanking him for an “excellent lunch” and saying he would be “thrilled” if either of his newspapers could dedicate some publicity to his social action initiatives.
It was the start of a close alliance. Johnson symbolised the liberal and cosmopolitan conservatism which David Cameron was seeking to project on the national stage. Lebedev, who, despite his youth, quickly became a dominant force within the paper, tried to reflect that same spirit on the pages of the Standard. The paper threw its weight behind him despite Labour’s domination in the capital. In May 2012, it told voters to back the “right choice for London” in an unusual front-page editorial praising Johnson’s achievements before his narrow re-election as mayor.
As Johnson set his sights on national politics the pair became closer. In October 2015, Johnson was invited to Castello di Santa Eurasia, the Lebedev family’s castle in Perugia in Umbria, central Italy.
He is thought to have travelled to the castle at least six times, sometimes in Lebedev’s private jet. Even after being appointed foreign secretary in 2016, he continued to go, making at least one secret trip. He did so without his Metropolitan Police protection officers, tasked with giving him 24/7 protection. It means Johnson, as Britain’s top diplomat, spent time in the home of Russian oligarch without any security or officials present.
Johnson has never disclosed why he attended or who else was there. He was forced to confront the issue only after newspapers revealed details of his visit. One said he was spotted in an Italian airport en route home looking “dishevelled”, “barely able to walk” and “holding a war strategy manual”.
The night after his 2019 general election victory, Johnson and his then girlfriend, Carrie, chose to attend just one party until the early hours: Lebedev’s Christmas bash, which also marked his father’s 60th birthday.
In the months that followed, Johnson set about appointing friends and allies to the House of Lords. One of them was Lebedev.
The pandemic, and the objections of Holac, complicated the nomination process but Johnson continued to support Lebedev.
Two former Downing Street sources say he was particularly anxious to ensure the Evening Standard — by then a struggling free sheet, its circulation crashing because of the collapse in commuting — received a healthy share of the government’s Covid-19 advertising budget during the first wave of the pandemic.
He is said to have personally asked Alex Aitken, executive director for government communication, to ensure the Standard benefited from the agreements.
While dozens of other newspapers, including national titles, benefited from the advertising deals, a source said that he had only mentioned Lebedev specifically. A source said there was a particular push to ensure the Standard was treated as a regional title so that it would receive “wraparound” advertising — an advert on the front and back pages of a newspaper.
The claim of preferential treatment is disputed by others who say he was keen to ensure the survival of all newspapers. “He was even concerned about The Guardian,” quipped one ally. Another said Michael Gove, a former Times journalist, was more closely involved in advertising discussions and was similarly non-partisan in his approach.
Last week Lebedev used the front page of the Standard to urge Putin to halt his invasion of Ukraine, personally addressing the leader and telling him to “please, stop this war”. He has previously described Russia’s leader as “strong” and called for an end to previous sanctions against the country, but friends say he was moved to intervene while travelling in Africa after significant pressure from friends in politics and the media. His father has remained silent.
A government spokesman said: “All individuals nominated for a peerage are done so in recognition of their contribution to society and all peerages are vetted by the House of Lords Appointments Commission.”
On the Covid-19 advertising, the spokesman added: “No title received preferred treatment and all outlets were selected by our external media planning and buying agency purely on their ability to engage with audiences at a national, regional and local level.”

DuncinToffee · 05/03/2022 23:48

Johnson's six step plan

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60634017
In his six-point plan to maintain pressure on Mr Putin, the prime minister said:
World leaders should mobilise an "international humanitarian coalition" for Ukraine
They should also support Ukraine "in its efforts to provide for its own self-defence"
Economic pressure on Russia should be ratcheted up
The international community must resist Russia's "creeping normalisation" of its actions in Ukraine
Diplomatic resolutions to the war must be pursued, but only with the full participation of Ukraine's legitimate government
There should be a "rapid campaign to strengthen security and resilience" among Nato countries

justasking111 · 05/03/2022 23:49

All these oligarchs popping up in the media as their assets are confiscated have one strange thing in common.

God they're universally ugly, small eyes, puffy faces, generally coarse features. I wonder if there's a correlation there

Tigersonvaseline · 05/03/2022 23:50

Stormy

I was thinking more of government sleaze, government hijacking democracy in the cradle of democracyAngry traitors... And....sleeze.

Anothermnuser · 05/03/2022 23:51

I wondered that and my goodness they deserve it. I think it was the fact that this seems to be the first day they haven't been on (happy to be corrected on this) made me wonder. Orla Gueran has been out and about and also looks exhausted. The bravery of the TV crews is amazing.

vera99 · 06/03/2022 00:01

The MSM is starting to go big on this and why we are way behind the rest of the world in sanctioning Putin's cronies and Ben Wallace pisses all over Truss as a man who is a master of his brief.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10581639/DAN-HODGES-race-replace-Boris-Johnson-turned-head-just-seven-days.html

Meanwhile, Foreign Office sources say there is a growing sense of frustration that the Foreign Secretary is being sidelined as Boris exerts more direct control over co-ordinating diplomatic efforts.

'Officials are worried the Prime Minister takes more advice from Lord Lebedev [Evgeny Lebedev, the Russian-British Evening Standard owner] over how best to tackle Putin than he's currently taking from Liz,' one said to me.

A No 10 insider confirmed: 'Lebedev and Boris are close. They talk on WhatsApp a lot.'

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 00:06

Boris may be doing stuff on the international stage - but he still has the domestic issues including a rising cost of living which is only going one way with the current situation. I wonder how much he is thinking about that at the moment - and how action he demands impacts on him politically.

We need to be prepared for things to get worse economically here.

vera99 · 06/03/2022 00:07

Faked Kremlin video of Putin and the women!

twitter.com/AlexKhrebet/status/1500170161726369799

Damnloginpopup · 06/03/2022 00:07

Just received this from my friend in Poland that is overjoyed that Ivan is being hammered. Unedited as received. He checks his sources. I've not checked where this is from.

CASE 1
Su-34, 'Red 24', shot down over Chernihiv. One crewmember was certain Major Krasnoruchev. Is not going to ring any bells to most of you. It does ring an alarm bell for me - because he was so proudly standing next to Assad (and Putin) for photographers, back in 2016.
Now pay attention: the jet he flew was repeatedly photographed while wearing the insignia of the Akhtubinsk State Flight Test Centre (also known as Valery Chkalov 929 GLIT). And it was hit while flying quite high: about 1,000m at least. Means, this was neither a 'lucky', nor 'easy' kill: this character is the 'elite' of the VKS.
CASE 2
Mi-35M shot down in the Bashtanka area, Mikolayiv Oblast.
Ukrainians claimed to have shot down a 'Ka-52 and two Mi-8s' there, during the same action: registration RF-13017 is pointing at this being a Mi-35M (see attached photo).
CASE 3
'Twin-tailed fighter jet'.... Su-30SM of the V-MF (Russian Naval Aviation), shot down in the Bashtanka area of Mikolayiv Oblast. Let's see if FB might accept the link from Telegram: t.me/mykolaivskaODA/454 (is the page of the local governor; posting reliable stuff).
Fins are better visible on this video: t.me/nikvesti/17673
Pilot was captured (wore an orange overall). Said, is from 43rd Independent Attack Air Regiment, Russian Naval Aviation (V-MF; Unit 59882), based on Russia-occupied Crimea.

CASE 4
We've all seen this video already, but to make sure it's authentic: a Mi-24 blown away... could be by a Polish-made Piorun MANPAD? (Slightly too fast and too smokey for a FIM-92 Stinger....)
www.facebook.com/worldmilitaryphotosdotcom/videos/653414159266833
CASE 5
Mi-35M shot down in the Bashtanka area (see two photos of the grey-painted example, with 'Z' ID-insignia)
CASE 6
Another Su-34 (no Su-25!!) from Chelyabinsk. Both crewmembers KIA. Wreckage visible on photos here:
twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1500114248147644418
CASE 7
Mi-8ATMSh registration RF-91165, shot down in the Bashtanka area of Mikolayiv Oblast.

OP posts:
Damnloginpopup · 06/03/2022 00:08

Sometimes late yesterday, rumours began appearing about Ukrainians running a counteroffensive in the Kharkiv area. Come on, I thought, 'must be PRBS' to bolster morale of a badly battered city (gauging by videos, the downtown Kharkiv looks like Stalingrad in Spring 1943...). And, hand on heart, who would be as crazy as - apparently - the CO of the Ukrainian 92nd Mechanised Brigade, to run a 'counteroffensive' at the time half the Russian Army is coming down on him....?
Forget all of that.
Sure, there's OPSEC about Ukrainian military operations. Nevertheless, sufficient video material came out, to conclude: yes, the 92nd Mech (that's perhaps 2,0ß0-3,000 troops) hit the Russian 144th Motor Rifle Division (about 12,000 troops), and wipped out its 488th Motor Rifle Regiment, knocking out and/or capturing most of its equipment.
Can't believe this? I couldn't - until I saw videos like these (arguably, the first is 'still WWII-style', but see the effects, and then check the other two):
twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1500024674268467203
twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1500126872084045829
twitter.com/666_mancer/status/1500091586394341382
...eventually, the Ukrainians drove all the way to the border - and then into Russia, prompting some to claim they would be threatening even Belogorod.
So now, let's say, 'this was just a local counterattack', they didn't go into Russia. Let's try a rough estimate...'instead', and that by 'Western standards'... 488th Motor Rifle Regiment... that's about 1,600 troops? So, +/- 10% are KIA, 10-15% WIA, the rest captured of scattered… and, considering the weather and piss-poor Russian military communications.... one is left to wonder if the CO 144th Motor Rifle Division has been informed about this at all?

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 00:19

Has anyone watched Occupied on Netflix?

About Russia occupying Norway. In a slowly slowly way. But the EU and other 'Allies' won't interfere as they fear retaliation. A very good series - Russia objected to it.

www.politico.eu/article/occupied-norwegian-tv-series-thats-enraged-the-kremlin-norway-russia-occupation/

A quote:

"It is certainly regretful that in the year when the 70th anniversary of the victory in the Second World War is celebrated, the series’s creators decided to scare Norwegian viewers with a non-existing threat from the East in the worst Cold War traditions.”

From 6 years ago

Damnloginpopup · 06/03/2022 00:20

His second message is a c&p from somewhere

OP posts:
Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 00:21

.. Boris s

Catquestion · 06/03/2022 00:23

From the article explaining how oligarchs came to be (posted up thread): “ After Putin came to power in 2000, he facilitated the second wave of oligarchs via state contracts. Private suppliers in many sectors such as infrastructure, defense and health care would overcharge the government at prices many times the market rate, offering kickbacks to the state officials involved. Thus, Putin enriched a new legion of oligarchs who owed their enormous fortunes to him.”

Not completely dissimilar to the PPE and other contracts during the height of the pandemic....

nonono1 · 06/03/2022 00:23

Maybe we do need to cut our consumption of oil and gas, drastically right now. Not just us the whole of Europe.

@PestorPeston I don’t really see what good that would do when only 3% of the UK’s gas comes from Russia? EU countries might be a different story, I believe Germany imports a lot more gas from Russia than we do. Not sure about other EU countries.

Booklover3 · 06/03/2022 00:27

If Germany imports a lot of gas from Russia then that’s left me wondering if that’s why they sent Ukraine substandard and useless guns etc