The Invasion is ongoing...Part 8

[Damnloginpopup]

Following on...

@workisnotawolf

Terrible things happened during the Second World War all over, but not everyone seems to be holding a grudge. Some Polish friends who are helping immensely right now with Ukrainian refugees sent me this link:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

It was to illustrate that despite what had happened in the past they love and welcome Ukrainians. I had never heard of this “genocide”/ethnic cleansing but it sounds pretty horrific.

This was a very upsetting read. I feel quite unwell now.

"On July 11, 2003, Presidents Aleksander Kwaśniewski and Leonid Kuchma attended a ceremony held in the Volhynian village of Pavlivka (previously known as Poryck), where they unveiled a monument to the reconciliation. The Polish president said that it is unjust to blame the entire Ukrainian nation for these acts of terror: "The Ukrainian nation cannot be blamed for the massacre perpetrated on the Polish population. There are no nations that are guilty.... It is always specific people who bear the responsibility for crimes".

This brought a crumb of comfort.

Maybe thinking wildly the UK 'threat' is code for we will release the Kompromat they most probably have on a number of politicians or folk of 'high authority'. Not sure I could stomach a sex tape of Boris were such a thing to exist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat

@NCdBcOuting

On Meduza calling for Russian speakers to get news into Russia - sorry can’t find original post to tag PP - what about the 15 years in prison for “propaganda”? I am just wondering how many Russians would fear that law, if they are over here/in the West? Does anyone have a sense? Presumably if they still have ties they’d want to eventually visit family and might be fearful of repercussions (like the poor US girl who’s just reportedly been arrested on entry)? Though I hope Russians in the West are not fearful and that the overall mood is let’s tear down Putin and his vile regime. Good on Meduza.

Meduza is fortunate because they are based in Latvia. Their site has been blocked in Russia but they can still post news and opinion. And internet savvy Russians can get around the blocks though I imagine they are getting tighter.

As for the new draconian laws, I don't think most Russians or Russian speakers in the West have anything to be afraid of. The laws generally target journalism and other forms of public speech, so high profile individuals might hesitate if they are planning to travel to Russia in the near future. But I don't think the laws will stop most people from speaking out. Of course, it's different for anyone actually in Russia. But courageous people are speaking out anyway and I hope they will be joined by more voices.

[quote vera99]Maybe thinking wildly the UK 'threat' is code for we will release the Kompromat they most probably have on a number of politicians or folk of 'high authority'. Not sure I could stomach a sex tape of Boris were such a thing to exist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat[/quote]
That would be the best possible threat. Except of course for the Boris sex tape, but we can just not watch it.

Chris Bryant raised such an issue in 2018.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/14/russia-blackmail-chris-bryant-donald-trump-boris-johnson-liam-fox

I know what you mean, I wouldn't want to watch it but I'd have to for curiosity, a load of sweaty gammon thrusting away 🤢😂

[quote vera99]Maybe thinking wildly the UK 'threat' is code for we will release the Kompromat they most probably have on a number of politicians or folk of 'high authority'. Not sure I could stomach a sex tape of Boris were such a thing to exist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat[/quote]
Which means, as this and the previous seven threads have indicated to us, we should treat objectively and with a healthy dose of scepticism regardless of where the message is coming from or whoever is the subject matter.

The thread has moved on from GCSE History but I just wanted to give kudos to my amazing history teacher in the 80s for showing us Night and Fog when covering WW2, and playing Rasputin by Boney M when covering the Russian revolution. God bless you, Miss Finnemore.

Also in sure this has been covered several threads back but I’ve been reading about the Budapest memorandum. I can’t understand why that wasn’t binding? Is there a difference between a treaty and a memorandum - the latter must have a point though, otherwise why bother?

@Fiefofum

The advisor to the Ukrainian Deputy PM interviewed on BBC news said there were several orphanages in the sieged towns, running out of supplies, and they could not help them. Heartbreaking to think of.

Absolutely heartbreaking. Unbearable to imagine…is there absolutely no way these poor children can be rescued? I genuinely would have a child here . Also the elderly in care homes are probably suffering as well which is shocking! In fact the more you think about the bigger picture the more horrific you realise this situation is 😞

@NCdBcOuting

Interesting discussion on WW2 knowledge and school vs home. I too thought it was enough to talk about it at home and in culture, but actually now see both need to happen side by side. This is such a helpful thread. Those teens not knowing really is shocking.

@TheSillyMastiff upthread in the bit on women staying behind to fight, you said

“because of the historic issues with the Russian army and attacking and raping women to death.”

Is there more info on this? As in, does such abuse of women happen in all wars? Like when Germans invaded countries? Vietnam? Or is there some sort of known thing that Russians do this more in war? I feel like I don’t understand enough. All suggestions of stuff to read most welcome.

Antony Beevor includes a chapter in Berlin The Downfall: 1945 (subsequenlty banned in Russia) which I think was the first account from a popular historian which really highlighted the extent of the mass rape of German women by the Red Army. It was a largely ignored part of the history of WWII, men killing each other and the strategies involved we can spend decades analysing. Mass rape of women? Best keep quiet on that one.

There is a Wiki page on the mass rape of women but I'd really recomend Antony Beevor's book and, if you can stomach it, The Unwomanly Face of War by Svetlana Alexievich. Excellent but harrowing book which I have had to walk away from on multiple occasions, about the lives of Soviet women during WWII.

*90s! Just aged myself there…

@RedToothBrush

ELINT News *@ELINTNews* Zelensky a few days ago asked Bennett to mediate with Russia

Apparently.

Yes, he did. He has spoken to Bennett at least twice in the past week. And he made some very pointed comments about Bennett's lack of support: “I saw a nice picture of Jews covered in Ukrainian flags near the Western Wall. They prayed and I thank them for that. We have good relations with the Israeli leadership, but things are tested in a time of trouble. I didn’t feel that the Israeli prime minister was covered in our flag.”

Haaretz.com @haaretzcom
UPDATE: Putin and Bennett's meeting is still ongoing, more than two and a half hours in. The Israeli PM violated Shabbat to fly to Moscow, accompanied by Ukrainian-born minister, PM's Office says

UPDATE: The Biden administration was informed of the Putin-Bennett meeting in advance.

PM Naftali Bennett is the first Western leader to meeting with the Russian president since Ukraine was invaded

Bennett is accompanied by his National Security Adviser Eyal Hulata and his Foreign Policy Advisor Shimrit Meir

Tim White @TWMCLtd
3rd round of "peace talks" between #Ukraine and #Russia will be held on Monday.

They are underplaying chances of a break through BUT I have seen a quote in which Putin was reported as saying that nearly all Ukrainian military and airforce were destroyed. Quote also suggests said there was no martial law was planned unless there was an external threat of aggression to Russia. I'm trying to find an alternative source from a news agency to verify this but I can't atm. I think its probably accurate though.

Assuming it is, why would you say that? I mean, if you are going to carry on in a prolonged war you either have to completely hide the war (which is entirely possible) or you are looking for a way out that saves face.

Enter the Israeli PM a few hours after it was reportedly said.

Meanwhile the Ministry of Defence (thats ours) have said the following:
Intelligence update
Russia's proposed ceasefire in Mariupol was likely an attempt to deflect international condemnation while resetting its forces for renewed activity. By accusing Ukraine of breaking the agreement, Russia is seeking to shift responsibility for current and future civilian casualties in the city.

In other words the British MOD thinks they are about to try and level it.

Its now day ten.

There was the thought that the Russians could only maintain this for 10 days due to logistics. The evidence does suggest they perhaps have run as far as they reasonably can.

If that were true, and there is a mood to 'how the fuck do we get out of this', I think I'd expect them to really make a point ahead of those talks on Monday. As in not much Mariupol left.

But I'm tentatively thinking with the latest development, for all the tough talk, Putin might have few options here. That may be massively over optimistic, but yeah a relatively quite nice in Kyiv, a 'cease fire' (reassembly and renewing supplies) and then the Israel PM does suggest that something is happening. Where its going to lead I don't know - but it is adding up to a picture of Russia not exactly being where it wants to be.

Crossing fingers.

This has long been a fairly robust rumour from his frequent trips to Lebedev's mansion in Italy on numerous occasions which was known to be an oligarch infested area with lots of beautiful Russian blondes who liked to 'party'. The power of Epstein was long said to be the tapes that he made of high-level figures in his case rumoured to be for Mossad.

But if stuff was to exist and be released and he didn't do anything too kinky or reveal state secrets it would be priced in. But I would watch it for 'research purposes'.

Really hoping Bennett talks start to change things

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-technology-business-europe-47dfea7579cedfe65a70296eb0188212
Ukrainian drone enthusiasts sign up to repel Russian forces

Last para of the article

Sushko fled his home late last week after his family had to take cover from a nearby explosion. He spoke to The Associated Press by phone and text message Friday after climbing up a tree for better reception.

What are they doing with the drones though?

@NCdBcOuting

^^“HeadPain

Dunno who saw this yesterday on Sky News:

"On board a Nato surveillance plane monitoring Russian activity in Ukraine "

m.youtube.com/watch?v=zt5j2mrXLks”^^

Ooooh could this be the thing that was making a funny pattern above Ukraine on FlightRadar, a few threads ago now?

Any further observations from FlightRadar heads more generally? Always so interesting!

Yeh I thought of those comments in these threads when I saw it on the news and they said they'd kept going around in like a figure of 8 pattern

Enter the Israeli PM a few hours after it was reportedly said

Let’s hope it’s the ‘ramp off’🤞🤞🤞🇺🇦🇺🇦

John Sweeney think s his personal email has been hacked by someone in the Kremlin mobile.twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1500064867977465856

The Budapest memorandum is binding, but people and countries break contracts and treaties all the time.

It was a largely ignored part of the history of WWII, men killing each other and the strategies involved we can spend decades analysing. Mass rape of women? Best keep quiet on that one I think it was ignored because people thought the Germans deserved it. Of course you could put a misogynistic gloss on it - probably a mix of both!

Reading the reports about how the day has been for the Russia Airforce.

Summary: I'm pretty sure they've had better would be a fair understatement even if you are being charitable and taking Ukraine reports with a pinch of salt...

@fantasticfebruary his wife is in Finland sono way he would stay. He came home because my dad died but she didn't have enough leave.

Does anyone actually know what he Russian woman said in the press meeting because daily mail posted different sentences to what other news outlets have reported (the daily mail sounded a lot worse)