The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

I don't see what was particularly anxiety inducing about today in particular TBH, in terms of escalation to the wider world anyway. Obviously for the poor Ukrainians every day is concerning.

Was about to post the same comment/question. Didn’t understand the point. Hoping for clarification.

We are only 4 pages in, so genuinelly tell me what part of my comment is not showing as its still visible for me.

@Alexandra2001 have you not seen the interviews of captured Russian soldiers? Very young men some still teenagers who were tricked into thinking it was a training exercise !! They were told they would be enemies of the state if they did not carry out their commanders orders!! They declared themselves to be cannon fodder!! Truly heartbreaking seeing them cry for their mothers!!

Like what @RedToothBrush I’ve been following your anxiety calming posts to keep me grounded.

@FacebookPhotos

How long can Russia last like this?

North Korea has survived as a pariah state for an awfully long time.

That said, I’m not convinced that those around Putin would be willing to be cut off from the rest of the world. But, equally, will the West keep up these sanctions when the economic effect on our citizens really starts to bite?

However, the people of North Korea haven't had the changes that happened post Communism, seen the differences and then seen that taken away again to such a degree as now.

Erica Marat @ericamarat
Several people noticed irregular mil activities in Kazakhstan. Expectedly rises suspicions if this is a clandestine support of the Russian invasion. Need clarity and transparency.

Kazakhstan MOD: Pres Tokayev “instructed to upgrade existing weapons, purchase heavy armored vehicles, missile and artillery systems for land and sea based, as well as air defense forces.” Kazakhstan “remains neutral on this issue”

Hmm.

Interesting article on US intelligence

edition.cnn.com/2022/02/26/politics/us-intelligence-ukraine-russia/index.html

“The battle for the truth
WHAT MATTERS: Beyond intelligence-gathering, the US effectively used intelligence almost in real time. The Biden administration strategically declassified and released intelligence in an effort to preempt Russian false flag operations. What are your thoughts on this new tactic?
WEINER: It's not a new tactic. It's an old one. What the US is doing is political warfare something it hasn't done effectively since the end of the Cold War. (This is is the subject of my last book, "The Folly and The Glory.") Political warfare is the way in which nations project their power and work their will against an enemy, short of launching missiles or sending in the marines. Its conduct requires the full spectrum of intelligence and diplomacy, from covert operations and espionage to coercive diplomacy and economic sanctions, and the skillful orchestration of these instruments by the president. The use of political warfare including the rapid declassification and publication of secret intelligence -- exposed and effectively blunted Putin's plans to use disinformation and lies as instruments of war. Ultimately, this is a battle for the truth, and shaping people's views of authoritarian regimes is part of the way political warfare is waged.”

@Thereisnolight

What does everyone think about Ukrainian men between 18-60 not allowed to leave Ukraine even if they want to? They are prisoners effectively. No Russian-bot hunters please. I’m genuinely wondering as I’m seeing no comment about this in the news.

It's war, sadly it's what men are used for in a population during such times. Marshal law has been applied, conscription is mandatory.

Same as for many other wars fought on such a scale if not larger.

Is it equal, no. Is it fair, no. Does it need to happen, not in a civilized society when people grasp that invading other nations for scraps of land is absolutely abhorrent.

But children need mother's, they can't be orphaned and sadly during war the value of womens life is put above men. Men's physical capabilities is put above women.

Nobody wins, but it's just how it is. It will never change.

Live stream of a power plant

@RedToothBrush
Your posts have been excellent (especially the language stuff) and very well thought through.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is use that thought through approach to the situation today.
The Russians will start to impose tougher domestic sanctions as the population starts to protest more. That could also be seen as hopeful.

@Squidinkk

I'm not really sure what it achieves to discriminate against normal Russians like banning them from dog shows and stuff. They're not responsible for the war. Also reality is going to bite there soon and there will be a lack of food and resources, the poorest Russians are going to suffer but putin won't care. What happens then?

I think about this a lot. There's a lot of poverty and injustice in Russia already, this situation is going to make it so much worse and clearly Putin doesn't care about 'his' people. Worse still, any who try to express their disagreement will be jailed (at best).

Ukrainians in the US to receive 'temporary protected status'

Ukrainian nationals present in the US as of this past Tuesday will be allowed to remain in the country under a special non-immigrant category.

US Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas announced the move on Thursday evening, saying the government would extend the 'Temporary Protected Status' (TPS) to Ukrainians.

Has anyone seen the thoughts by someone, can't remember who, that although the humanitarian corridor seems like a good idea, if they act like they did in Syria then there will be no quarter to those who choose not to leave or cannot leave

@Countess64

My husband's father was born in Lwow (which was, at that time, part of Poland). I see my husband being sad, even though his father died 50 years ago. I imagine the stories that he told his son, of WW2 etc. How difficult it is to watch this and know that perhaps we truly were a lucky generation.

My dad was born in a town that is now part of Belarus and my grandfather in Tarnopol (now Ternopil) which is now in Western Ukraine. Both were in Polish held lands at that time. He also as a child of four travelled to Lwow (now Lviv) from his home to then travel on by train to south Poland on what is now the Slovakian border. This was in 1930 and he was told they had to leave 'because gangsters had come' - Russian insurgents. The exact same journey that many others are making now and for the same reason as now. They lasted another nine years before the outbreak of war, my dad was the only one of his family to survive.

Watching it all happen again just breaks my heart with the added escalation of a nuclear threat in the hands of a megalomanic thrown into the mix. I understand your husband's sadness, I feel the same too.

@Justanotherlurker

What I'm struggling to understand, and feel quite angry about actually, is how Putin and Lavrov can make bold statements like "the west are brainwashed" when they literally control what their nation sees and hears on TV / Radio and Internet

It's quite funny watching MN do a 180 on areas around this, because if we get into the the crux of your statment is
when they literally control what their nation sees and hears on TV / Radio and Internet

It's what MN in general have been championing for years, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and pushing into the tech scenario "it's a private company so they can do what they want".

It would be funny if it was coming from some right wing website, but this site is all to happy to try and whip up hysteria of some topic and demand the government to intervine.

@Justanotherlurker this is the post of yours that I did not understand. It just makes no sense to me.

[quote Justanotherlurker]Live stream of a power plant

[/quote] I'm not getting sound or commentary on that and I'm not at all familiar with power plants. What's going on with it?

What happens then? Revolt.

Western powers know how destabalise a country, they've been doing it for years. If you keep pressure, keep pushing eventually the people revolt, because they are hungry, poor, fed up and ground down from living in fear.

There aren't enough gulags in Russia to imprison the population, and when the police force are starving, poor and not getting paid, they aren't going to be willing to carry out what the state is asking if them.

It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight but eventually the tinder box catches fire.

@TheSillyMastiff
(Re men aged 18-60 not allowed to leave Ukraine).

I’m not objecting to the fact that it’s only men, not women. I’m not one of those people who thinks there’s no difference between women and men.

What I’m objecting to is that anyone can force any other human to either kill or be killed against their will.

Also I don’t think that in war women’s lives are valued more highly. Far from it, as we sadly know.

@Justanotherlurker

Was about to post the same comment/question. Didn’t understand the point. Hoping for clarification.

We are only 4 pages in, so genuinelly tell me what part of my comment is not showing as its still visible for me.

None of your comment is missing, it’s all there. But I can’t seem to understand what point you’re making (which is what I assume pp also mean).

Thanks re China article.

Let's face it they are a huge market.

I'm a very small fry investors.
Russia doesn't impact me And it's not part of my portfolio anyway.

China....is.

I know men are conscripted in Ukraine but even beore that we've seen mainly women and children getting out.
For an extremely long time on Mumsnet we have had to listen too why it's ok or for them to stay in war zone's and send the men too safety???

.

It's war, sadly it's what men are used for in a population during such times. Marshal law has been applied, conscription is mandatory.
Same as for many other wars fought on such a scale if not larger.
Is it equal, no. Is it fair, no. Does it need to happen, not in a civilized society when people grasp that invading other nations for scraps of land is absolutely abhorrent.

But children need mother's, they can't be orphaned and sadly during war the value of womens life is put above men. Men's physical capabilities is put above women.

I have to say this is something I’m not happy about.

Women have to look after the children, yes, but those without dependents could be as available as the men. Many are doing things like making Molotov cocktails and so on, and probably lots in the health sectors. Israel has women soldiers, it’s a perfectly possible thing. Maybe they could raise the age limit for conscription for all then.

[quote Thereisnolight]@TheSillyMastiff
(Re men aged 18-60 not allowed to leave Ukraine).

I’m not objecting to the fact that it’s only men, not women. I’m not one of those people who thinks there’s no difference between women and men.

What I’m objecting to is that anyone can force any other human to either kill or be killed against their will.

Also I don’t think that in war women’s lives are valued more highly. Far from it, as we sadly know.[/quote]

I agree with you.

But war is war, people die, people kill or get killed. It's horrific, it's why for the last 76 years since the end of WW2, we say:

"lest we forget"

Because we can never and should never forget the price of war, for it isn't money in banks, or stock markets or even property damaged, it's the cost of the most sacred thing, human life.

Putin is a dictator!

Not a president and he is not Russia.