The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

It's quite funny watching MN do a 180 on areas around this

Justanotherlurker I don't understand your post at all. What do you mean?

I follow someone on Instagram that has been booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. Obviously not planning to stay there but its a way to get money directly into the hands of the Ukrainian people.

[quote Gingerwarthog]@Oakleaffy
Yes I know. A poster on an earlier thread was talking about wheelchair users and how hard it would be for them to escape and/or to deal with the incredible hardships of being in a city under siege.
Some local groups (such as the Rabbi in Kyiv and his volunteers mentioned in a few posts upthread) are trying to help and said that they had been trying to buy as much food/ bottled water as possible. [/quote]
Exactly this..People who cannot move easily.
When there were the awful news reports of fleeing Syrians, seeing the very elderly moving at a snail's pace in unsuitable footwear over desert terrain with a stick, while carrying a few things in a carrier bag was heartrending.
Being young and physically fit at least helps when trying to survive.

War is sickening, always the innocent pay the highest price.
I read of a couple in their Eighties, stuck in an apartment, sheltering in the hallway with their pets, physically unable to move anywhere else.

**Ohmnomnom

I follow someone on Instagram that has been booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. Obviously not planning to stay there but its a way to get money directly into the hands of the Ukrainian people.

Yes I’m tempted.

@ClaudineClare

It's quite funny watching MN do a 180 on areas around this

Justanotherlurker I don't understand your post at all. What do you mean?

Was about to post the same comment/question. Didn’t understand the point. Hoping for clarification.

@MissConductUS

There was some discussion at the end of the previous thread about the fact that China is going along with some of the sanctions. The WSJ had a good article today about China's changing role and the fact that it's cozying up to the Russians just before the invasion is considered a major foreign policy blunder that they are trying to recover from.

China Declared Its Russia Friendship Had ‘No Limits.’ It’s Having Second Thoughts. - Xi Jinping wanted Vladimir Putin to join in a united front against the U.S., and he got it Feb. 4. Now the Ukraine war threatens to undo Beijing’s years long effort to become a world leader.

There's a paywall, so I'll c&p the first part.

In the months leading up to Xi Jinping making common cause with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the Chinese leader was focused on one country, and it wasn’t Ukraine.

His ambitions for alignment with Mr. Putin had one main purpose: presenting a united front against the U.S. The result, according to Chinese officials, foreign-policy advisers to Beijing and an analysis of public statements, was the Feb. 4 China-Russia declaration that the countries’ friendship had “no limits.”

Russia’s subsequent invasion of its neighbor is forcing Beijing into adjusting its foreign policy in a way that risks damaging relations with the U.S.-led West and undoing years of efforts to paint itself as a responsible world leader.

In Beijing, the ripple effects of a move that may cost China dearly are now sinking in, say the officials and advisers. Some officials say they are fearful of the consequences of getting so close to Russia at the expense of other relationships—especially when Russian aggression against Ukraine is isolating Moscow in much of the world.

Already, many politicians from Washington to Brussels have grouped Beijing together with Moscow as a new “axis”—a term giving Western alliances more reason to disengage from China and form closer ties among themselves.

“Elevating the partnership with Russia on the eve of its invasion of Ukraine was a massive foreign-policy blunder by Xi,” said Jude Blanchette, a China specialist at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank focused on international relations. “The cost is very real for China and is exposing the limits of Xi’s policy.”

China’s Foreign Ministry didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Ok. My anxiety levels are going up tonight.

Mood is hmm... Giving me proper heebie-jeebies.

That wasn't supposed to quote anything. facepalm

@BeckyWithTheGoodHair010101

What I'm struggling to understand, and feel quite angry about actually, is how Putin and Lavrov can make bold statements like "the west are brainwashed" when they literally control what their nation sees and hears on TV / Radio and Internet. And the irony of Lavrov comparing us to Hitler when they're bombing innocent civilians and committing heinous war crimes. Do they actually think that people in the west with the information we have available are going to fall for this absolute SHIT if they repeat it enough? It makes me rage.

It's a pattern.

Was just as noticeable in Russian officials' language around, for example, the Salisbury poisonings.

It's a particularly aggressive version of DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

It's supposed to throw the accuser off balance and gaslight them, but personally I think Russian officials have been overcooking this for some time. If you aren't overawed by someone shouting and banging the table, it's immediately clear their actual content is laughable.

I really do just think, "Is that the best you can do?"

Since it's always their own behaviour they're really describing, it's occasionally useful to reveal stuff what they're up to. But mostly it's just boring and predictable.

Your comments are ignorant, bloodthirsty and racist

No they are not, they are reality.

Whether you like it or not, the more Russians killed, the less Ukrainians killed, that is why the 'West is sending so many weapons to the Ukrainians.
Do you think we should send flowers and cards instead?

As a Ukrainian Govt minister said when asked about the young Russians in her country, she replied "They may be children but they are killing us"

Blame Putin of course, but the trials after WW2 showed "obeying orders" did not stop young German soldiers being found guilty for war crimes.

What we are seeing in Ukraine is pretty much what Germany did to Warsaw and what Russia/Germany did to many other places but Germany learnt not to make the same mistakes again.

My point is Russia has not.

My anxiety levels are going up tonight.

Not sure I understand why, WRT that quote about Xi?

.

TY for new thread!

Why’s that @RedToothBrush?

.

Interesting watching the news reports from Russia. Radio stations shut down, websites shut down, arrested for protesting, large scale economic sanctions. Potential martial law. The Rouble collapsing.

How long can Russia last like this?

www.bis.org/cbspeeches/index.htm?m=2_10

I was asking yesterday about likely economic consequences in Europe. Have read 2x 3 March articles by ECB and Bank of England representatives. General gist - turns out they don’t know yet but will do their best:)
The BIS is the super regulator and should have articles in the future with hopefully some more concrete information.
I can’t quote from the BOE article as it is in pdf but general gist was Russia represents only 2 per cent of world economy and the main concern is their dominance in the energy and commodities market so we will need to address and bypass that asap somehow to avoid further bottlenecks and pressures on a post Covid recovery.

I do think best approach will be to try and cut out and ignore Putin completely. Focus all our efforts on humanitarian relief to Ukrainian refugees.

I agree China is mainly economically driven these days.

@RedToothBrush

That wasn't supposed to quote anything. facepalm

I'm honored anyway.

Does anyone listen to Ukrainecast on BBC iPlayer ? There was a Russian reporter on the line this evening, I think she was in Moscow, saying that people are wandering around and behaving normally, and the thing that has miffed them the most was IKEA ceasing trading there.

Saw a wonderful string Ukrainian woman on bbc news singing their National anthem from her window.
Said fuck you live on air in reference to putin.

Yeah, fuck you Putin

Thanks for all the updates, these threads movie so quickly, by the time I've watched one episode of "Elementary" to distract myself were 4 pages in! 😂

What does everyone think about Ukrainian men between 18-60 not allowed to leave Ukraine even if they want to? They are prisoners effectively.
No Russian-bot hunters please. I’m genuinely wondering as I’m seeing no comment about this in the news.

How long can Russia last like this?

North Korea has survived as a pariah state for an awfully long time.

That said, I’m not convinced that those around Putin would be willing to be cut off from the rest of the world. But, equally, will the West keep up these sanctions when the economic effect on our citizens really starts to bite?

If @RedToothBrush is getting anxious, I think that's the most concerning development so far.

Anxiety.

They sang the national anthem in their parliament. They knew how symbolic it was. And how dangerous. Yet it had to be.

It was the last chance.

The warning over martial law in Russia. Its happening. There clearly intel on this to my eyes.

Russian people, although they say they don't think its war - certainly aren't behaving like that. They are stocking up.

Rumours that the border closure and conscription will also include foreigners trapped. Really very harsh sentences for disobedience.

Significant ramping up of stuff domestically in preparation.

Ukraine becoming Alleppo and Grosny.

The Macron call.

A sense that something else is about to happen...

... Just... Uneasy.

I'm not really sure what it achieves to discriminate against normal Russians like banning them from dog shows and stuff. They're not responsible for the war. Also reality is going to bite there soon and there will be a lack of food and resources, the poorest Russians are going to suffer but putin won't care. What happens then?