The invasion is a Week Old...Part 7

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Unbelievable. Thread 6 is almost full, to be found here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4495271-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-6?pg=1

Still a fascinating and thoughtful set of documentation of our evolving thoughts, fears, questions, analyses and updates. And still a credit to the eyes, ears and knowledge of those on here.

Pinched from one poster on thread 6 whose name I can't recall:

Latest claims from both sides about casualties
Ukraine's army regularly puts out updates on the damage it says it's inflicting on Russian forces, which continue to press on key cities, particularly in the south.

We should stress that the BBC can't verify this information, but the latest update from the General Staff of the Armed Forces says that approximately 9,000 Russian personnel have been killed or wounded.

It also says Ukrainian forces have destroyed:

217 tanks
90 artillery systems
31 helicopters
30 planes or other aircraft
For its part, Russia yesterday for the first time gave a specific number for casualties it had suffered in Ukraine, saying 498 Russian soldiers had died and nearly 1,600 had been wounded.

It said it had killed 2,870 Ukrainian soldiers and "nationalists".

@Ohmnomnom

I follow someone on Instagram that has been booking Airbnbs in Ukraine. Obviously not planning to stay there but its a way to get money directly into the hands of the Ukrainian people.

I have just booked one. The host was very grateful. I wasn't sure it would work so I only booked 3 nights but it went through easily. I might look at others tomorrow.

I am no political expert but the sanctions are now kicking well in, people are protesting and now fleeing in fear of martial law !! Surely part of the Kremlin must be thinking this is not going to plan , this is having a knock on effect on their lives too !! Living luxuriously one minute and thrown into the depths of a bloody war and economic disaster!! I am sure there are things going on behind the scenes we have no knowledge of !!

@Sunnierdays
Thanks. That's what I was trying to say to Red Toothbrush to help her to feel less anxious - but you put it more clearly.

@MumbleCrumbs

John Brennan (former CIA) detective just told MSNBC he thinks Putin's days are numbered, probably to double digits. Hopefully he has some info we don't!

Oh that is music to my ears. Every day I wake up and hope to read that the bald headed, repugnant little cunt is dead.

I'm sorry if my language offends anybody but calling him a bastard doesn't do it justice.

I did a bit of digging last night and it didn't take long to come across an article where his ex wife was quoted as saying he was a physically abusive to her throughout their marriage. I don't think anybody will be surprised to hear that.

The Times have reported 3 assassination attempts on President Zelensky

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-survives-three-assassination-attempts-in-days-xnstdfdfc

@StormzyinaTCup

What's the current legal status for returning civilians e.g. After the conflict is over?

Will they be allowed back? I wonder if Putin is using the refugees as an EU destabilising weapon which maybe why a ceasefire for safe passage has been agreed and why he held off attacking for so long? He wants people to flee, he certainly wasn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart. Putin (and Lukashenko) have history for doing this.

I agree that the refugees are being used as another means of destabilising the West.

The ceasefire and safe passage agreement will also allow Putin to regroup his forces, I'm thinking of the huge military convoy here, ready for an even more sustained attack.

Oh, that one.

I haven't read through Justanotherlurker's comments on this topic, so this is in no way any comment on any position he's taken.

However, that is a weird account. Sometimes he posts straightforwardly, like he's having a genuine conversation. And sometimes he goes through spates of posting word-salad that looks almost meaningful, but isn't quite.

Other posters typically get very bogged down trying to find a meaning.

I mention this because these are good, informative threads, and it would be a shame if they got gunged up playing the game of "What is Justanotherlurker trying to say?"

@MumbleCrumbs have you looked well into his eyes ?? Colder than a dead fish !!

We absolutely must remember, those around Putin have beloved children (living in luxury), grandchildren

They want too live they have families screaming at them

We planned too Go too Antibes on the yacht this year's
Just got rid of COVID and now this?? What's going on
They will all hate him and there is no ideology to cling too

Scary times.

Hah, just read more of the thread and found I've x-posted with a zillion posters saying, "Justanotherlurker, I don't understand what you mean."

Chitta Putin's had bloody months to amass his army which he did.

A ceasefire also gives time for aid to reach them And for all these band's of brigands to Ukraine And armour
...

I'm more positive today than I was a few days ago:

Strength of fight back by the Ukrainian people
Unity of the whole of Europe/US and most of the rest of the world
Crippling Sanctions
Possible disaffected FSB agents
Kremlin (ex) advisers speaking out
Russian Citizens protesting
Reports of some Russian soldiers turning back
A bounty being placed on Putin's head

None of the above would have been in Putin's plan.

His days are numbered I think.

Mins mum that's concerning.

Eventually one will succeed.

I actually think as a symbol he's better getting out and remaining that figurehead for freedom??

If he dies it will be a huge blow

[quote minsmum]The Times have reported 3 assassination attempts on President Zelensky

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-survives-three-assassination-attempts-in-days-xnstdfdfc[/quote]
I can only read the first few sentences die to pay wall, but is it naive to be encouraged by the part that says "thwarted by anti-war elements within Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB)."

[quote Gingerwarthog]@Sunnierdays
Thanks. That's what I was trying to say to Red Toothbrush to help her to feel less anxious - but you put it more clearly.[/quote]
And that will also push Putin further too.

@Squidinkk

I'm not really sure what it achieves to discriminate against normal Russians like banning them from dog shows and stuff. They're not responsible for the war. Also reality is going to bite there soon and there will be a lack of food and resources, the poorest Russians are going to suffer but putin won't care. What happens then?

It's upward pressure. It's another way of challenging the Russian State's presentation that everything is just fine and dandy. No, ordinary citizens aren't responsible for the war but once they too start to feel some of the consequences, mild though they are compared to Ukraine's terrible suffering, it will create added pressure on Putin. The Russian people have always been irrelevant to the machinations of the Russian State so no change there then.

Sorry I don't know how to do share tokens

@Alexandra2001

Your comments are ignorant, bloodthirsty and racist

No they are not, they are reality.

Whether you like it or not, the more Russians killed, the less Ukrainians killed, that is why the 'West is sending so many weapons to the Ukrainians.
Do you think we should send flowers and cards instead?

As a Ukrainian Govt minister said when asked about the young Russians in her country, she replied "They may be children but they are killing us"

Blame Putin of course, but the trials after WW2 showed "obeying orders" did not stop young German soldiers being found guilty for war crimes.

What we are seeing in Ukraine is pretty much what Germany did to Warsaw and what Russia/Germany did to many other places but Germany learnt not to make the same mistakes again.

My point is Russia has not.

Yep. Reality. Wars are won by killing more of the people trying to kill more of you. Usually although in Vietnam the policy was that they would not stop until the invader was defeated, no matter how many were lost. Against the French, the Americans and whomever else. I can't quote exactly but it's definitely in 'we are soldiers still' by General Hal Moore and journalist Joseph Galloway and are the words of General Vo Nguyen Giap (who defeated the French and Americans). Giap I would consider to be one of the greatest generals of the twentieth century, if not the greatest.

Putin seems to be as willing to pour all his men into the mincer too, but as an invader. With far less respect for their sacrifice than the Vietnamese had.

No matter how sympathetic you might be towards conscripted russian cannon fodder they are also conscripted russian cannon firers and because of that require killing or otherwise removing from the battlefield. That is purely reality and to think otherwise is doing a great disservice to the defenders of their own homes, population, land and way of life. Their freedom.

And that will also push Putin further too

We can only hope that push propells him outwards from a very high window.

I’m not understanding what’s going on with that power plant either

Battle on at europes biggest nuclear plant right now.

Building is on fire.

@Alexandra2001

Your comments are ignorant, bloodthirsty and racist

No they are not, they are reality.

Whether you like it or not, the more Russians killed, the less Ukrainians killed, that is why the 'West is sending so many weapons to the Ukrainians.
Do you think we should send flowers and cards instead?

As a Ukrainian Govt minister said when asked about the young Russians in her country, she replied "They may be children but they are killing us"

Blame Putin of course, but the trials after WW2 showed "obeying orders" did not stop young German soldiers being found guilty for war crimes.

What we are seeing in Ukraine is pretty much what Germany did to Warsaw and what Russia/Germany did to many other places but Germany learnt not to make the same mistakes again.

My point is Russia has not.

Russia really may have not but as I see it, that is not the fault of a load of teenagers. It is of Putin and his henchmen. Spetnaz and the Chechens couldn't do it, so it seems to be largely being left to young conscripts, some of whom are apparently bewildered as to why they are there in the first place. God alone knows where the real army is, or even if it exists.

I said earlier today that accusations of being Nazis are thrown around willy nilly at the moment by the Putin squad, against Nato, against a Jewish President, in a way George Orwell wouldn't comprehend, by a man behaving like Hitler. I have always thought one of the most (among so many) debased things the remnant of that regime did was send the kids of the Hitler Youth to face the Allies, specifically the Red Army. The children of the country as cannon fodder, in this case conducting an invasion.

PS Fuck Godwins Law, if the cap fits

Michael Weiss @ michaeldweiss
Pentagon briefing two hours ago: "In general, we still assess that Russian forces are largely stalled across the north."

"In Kharkiv, we would assess that the Russian forces now appear to be just outside the city, very near the ring road."

"In the south, we've seen reporting that Kherson is under Russian control, but we're not in a position to independently verify that."

"Mariupol is still under Ukrainian control, although we have seen and observe Russian forces advancing on Mariupol with, as I said yesterday, the apparent intention to isolate the city."

"I know everybody's very fixated on Odessa. We don't have any naval activity to speak to or any moves by the Russians with respect to Odessa at this time."

"Airspace over Ukraine remains contested, as yesterday. We assess that Ukrainian air and missile defense systems remain intact, and they remain effective. They continue to be able to fly their airplanes and to employ air defense assets."

*Spetsnaz