Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 01/03/2022 15:57

Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
dogfishman · 02/03/2022 12:48

FOJN Thank you. Nobody should be at all surprised at what Putin has done. He is doing exactly what he promised us all last summer in that essay:(en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians)
He is justifying it with a whole host of other grievances stretching back 30 years. Some of these have some merit, and should be addressed. But none comes close to warranting the death and destruction that he has unleashed. His fundamental motivation is to see the 3 historical Russias (Russia, Belarus and Ukraine or "little Russia") bound together again, with Russia in command. That is simply not compatible with Ukrainian self determination.

Bluebellsunderthetrees · 02/03/2022 12:50

You can also add to that if they do get a successful negotiation with Ukraine and they leave with no more casualties, they will have solved the Eastern Ukraine problem with less much much less bloodshed than the 14000 killed in the Ukraine civil war. That's how I would spin it.

EsmaCannonball · 02/03/2022 12:51

Abramovich not being sanctioned was raised at PMQs. Boris gave a non-answer. Abramovich has returned to Russia supposedly because he wants to mediate in the situation but I suspect he's protecting his assets and worried about potential legal scrutiny in this country.

CPL593H · 02/03/2022 12:52

I love the humour of "The Hague" but am dumbfounded by the Russians using old Soviet maps and not satellite navigation. It makes you wonder what else is lacking militarily if this is the case.

The statue of Sir Nichols Winton with the kids Sad

Bluebellsunderthetrees · 02/03/2022 12:53

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I think you giving them too much credit.

I think they buggered it up and Putin is furious.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon Grin I'll be accused of being a Russian spin doctor/bot in a minute
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 02/03/2022 12:55

Welcome to the club.

I have been accused so many times I stopped counting.

StrychnineInTheSandwiches · 02/03/2022 12:56

@EsmaCannonball

Abramovich not being sanctioned was raised at PMQs. Boris gave a non-answer. Abramovich has returned to Russia supposedly because he wants to mediate in the situation but I suspect he's protecting his assets and worried about potential legal scrutiny in this country.
He has Chelsea up for sale for £4bn, looking for a speedy sale I'd imagine. No doubt trying to offload all UK assets during the 30 day window that Johnson kindly gave him.
danni0509 · 02/03/2022 12:56

@EsmaCannonball

Abramovich not being sanctioned was raised at PMQs. Boris gave a non-answer. Abramovich has returned to Russia supposedly because he wants to mediate in the situation but I suspect he's protecting his assets and worried about potential legal scrutiny in this country.
He swerved that question in his usual bullshit way didn’t he.
Alexandra2001 · 02/03/2022 12:57

@EsmaCannonball

Abramovich not being sanctioned was raised at PMQs. Boris gave a non-answer. Abramovich has returned to Russia supposedly because he wants to mediate in the situation but I suspect he's protecting his assets and worried about potential legal scrutiny in this country.
Strange that Oligarchs escape scot free but uk tax payers asked to foot the bill for refugee support. Even the help line for uk Ukrainians here isn't a freephone.

IPC show more weakness and allow Russian/Belarus athletes to compete.

Meanwhile over 2000 Ukrainian civilians are reported to have been killed... we are witnessing Genocide/Mass extermination in Europe and are doing SFA about it.

MarshaBradyo · 02/03/2022 12:57

Oth you get Trump supporter so it could be worse Wink

I do think the will of people in Ukraine is being somewhat forgotten though

MarshaBradyo · 02/03/2022 12:58

@dogfishman

@supermoonrising The Maidan revolution had a lot of factions, some good, some bad, and the support of about 50% of the Ukrainian people. Soon afterwards Russia annexed Crimea. And after that Ukraine had elections in 2014 and 2019 - in both of which the vast majority of Ukrainians voted for candidates (Poroshenko, Tymoshenko or Zelensky) who supported EU and NATO membership.

That's not surpprising given that Russia had just annexed a chunk of their country, despite guaranteeing its borders (including Crimea) in 1994.
So this argument that the current government of Ukraine somehow doesn't represent the will of its people or that they don't want to be in the EU or NATO is, with respect, tosh. Of course there are some particularly in the east and Crimea who would rather stay closely affiliated to Russia, and they may comprise a majority in a few regions, but nowhere near it in Ukraine as a whole.

Last post re Chardonnay - moving fast

Appreciate these posts DogFish and Red’s insight below

DuncinToffee · 02/03/2022 13:00

@EsmaCannonball

Abramovich not being sanctioned was raised at PMQs. Boris gave a non-answer. Abramovich has returned to Russia supposedly because he wants to mediate in the situation but I suspect he's protecting his assets and worried about potential legal scrutiny in this country.
I am an Everton supporter and the club has just released a statement that it has suspended with immediate effect all commercial sponsorship arrangements with the Russian companies USM, Megafon and Yota which are owned by Usmanov who I assume is on the governments 'hit list' and was involved with Abramovich at Chelsea.
anotherperson1 · 02/03/2022 13:06

They are using maps and signs? Why no Sat nav?

TonTonMacoute · 02/03/2022 13:07

I am in the camp that believe Putin has got this disastrously wrong.

He thought that the ethnic Russians would welcome them in with flag waving, the Zelensky government would flee so he could install a puppet government, followed by an election/referendum to make it all official.

Now, he not only has to fight and win, but he will have to keep an army of occupation in Ukraine indefinitely, military strategists estimate this army would have to number nearly 900,000 - 4 times the number of troops he has there at the moment. It will be a repeat of Afghanistan in the 1980s.

On Channel 4 news last night there was a Moscow academic who is advisor to the Kremlin on Russian/EU relations. He condemned the invasion as evil and was very negative about the whole thing.

Either he is incredibly brave to speak out as an individual, or he has support from people much higher up, which implies some in the elite are already planning to dissociate themselves from him, and perhaps to remove him.

TonTonMacoute · 02/03/2022 13:08

*dissociate themselves from Putin that is.

Yeahthat · 02/03/2022 13:13

@TonTonMacoute

Interesting. I didn't see this. We can only hope that it is the case.

DGRossetti · 02/03/2022 13:16

@Tuba437

Just a quick question on sanctions. How long are these likely to last. I'm guessing surely some sanctions may be used as leverage in any peace talks?
You mean the sanctions that won't start till end of March ?
minsmum · 02/03/2022 13:17

With regards to sat navs and maps, I vaguely remember something from the Russian Afghan campaign. It was said that part of the reason it went so badly for them was that only officers were taught map reading because they didn't trust the conscripts. So when their officers were killed they were lost. I wonder if it's part of the same thing in not trusting their ordinary soldiers

SeedsSeedsSeeds · 02/03/2022 13:18

@Alexandra2001 as a UK tax payer I think it is shameful that the oligarchs are being given so long to hide their assets, but I am happy to donate to help the refugees. Whether that is through my taxes, by bringing more women and children to UK, or donating to the red cross, which I have already done. It is obvious that many UK tax payers are doing what they can to help.

notimagain · 02/03/2022 13:22

@CPL593H

I love the humour of "The Hague" but am dumbfounded by the Russians using old Soviet maps and not satellite navigation. It makes you wonder what else is lacking militarily if this is the case.

The statue of Sir Nichols Winton with the kids Sad

Sort of what minsmum said.

I gather from way back the Soviet/Russian conscripts and junior ranks did/went in whatever direction they were told….literally.

Maps were often only held at senior officer level (Major or above).

jgw1 · 02/03/2022 13:24

@CPL593H

I love the humour of "The Hague" but am dumbfounded by the Russians using old Soviet maps and not satellite navigation. It makes you wonder what else is lacking militarily if this is the case.

The statue of Sir Nichols Winton with the kids Sad

My understanding of plans for Russian forces in the Cold War was that there would be troops on each junction directing traffic, has much changed?
ChardonnaysPetDragon · 02/03/2022 13:24

@MarshaBradyo

Oth you get Trump supporter so it could be worse Wink

I do think the will of people in Ukraine is being somewhat forgotten though

I've had every insult flung at me, except for "fucking cyclist". Now that would have been an insult too far for me! Grin
Alexandra2001 · 02/03/2022 13:25

[quote SeedsSeedsSeeds]@Alexandra2001 as a UK tax payer I think it is shameful that the oligarchs are being given so long to hide their assets, but I am happy to donate to help the refugees. Whether that is through my taxes, by bringing more women and children to UK, or donating to the red cross, which I have already done. It is obvious that many UK tax payers are doing what they can to help.[/quote]
@SeedsSeedsSeeds No problem whatsoever with contributing but my argument is that we should be seeking funds to help Ukraine from the people who enabled Putin.

These people keep £20m down the side of the sofa.

It is a ridiculous state of affairs where Oligarchs get to keep their assets whilst at the same time the tax payer is asked to contribute, surely you can see that is perverse?

Alexandra2001 · 02/03/2022 13:28

I do think the will of people in Ukraine is being somewhat forgotten though

Of course it will be forgotten, have you heard of Yalta ?

TheSillyMastiff · 02/03/2022 13:28

Even in the British Army, although all staff are taught basic map reading skills, tends to be the officers that are in charge of navigating.

I mean you haven't lived till you've been lead 3miles in the wrong direction in rainy Brecon by a wet behind the ears 2 pip 😂

Swipe left for the next trending thread