The Invasion Has Stalled

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So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

This is a long thread, not read it all

But just seen on the news 4,500 Russian soldiers killed. So who has the responsibility of repatriating these young lads? I feel for them and their families too

Are the Ukrainian people expected to organise burials?

Sorry, it's not the questions I like asking!

@Febrier
The war in Iraq was roundly condemned in many places at the time.
Study: 97% of US media sources in 2003 were pro invasion or neutral.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War

@workisnotawolf

If we are digressing to European politics, which I do believe is somewhat relevant, then Marie Le Pen will be toast if there are proven links to Russia and the election will be a walk in the park for Macron.

Yes. Three of the four main challengers to Macron (Le Pen, Melanchon, Zemmour) have all been pro-Putin in the past and are now trying to backtrack. The election is in April and Macron expected to win (we'll see, of course).

@GirlInACountrySong

This is a long thread, not read it all

But just seen on the news 4,500 Russian soldiers killed. So who has the responsibility of repatriating these young lads? I feel for them and their families too

Are the Ukrainian people expected to organise burials?

Sorry, it's not the questions I like asking!

As grim as this is, Russia has a "portable" crematorium. It's a big white lorry with a single cremation chamber in it and a chimney. So Russia can deploy that, but also Ukraine have asked I think for the Red Cross to organise the disposal/repatriation of the deceased.

But my guess is once Russia has cemented transport routes and logistics in Ukraine the "white lorry" will arrive.

It's how they get away with reporting less casualties because they get rid of the evidence.

Lest we forget, the invasion of Iraq was hugely unpopular in the UK. The British Stop the War Coalition (Stop) protest in London was the largest political demonstration in the city's history. Police estimated attendance as well in excess of 750,000 people and the BBC estimated that around a million attended.

But I appreciate that posters want to move on, and focus on the subject of the thread, which is the current invasion of Ukraine by Putin's Russia.

⚡️Zelensky asks the EU for membership.

“We ask the European Union for Ukraine's immediate accession under a new special procedure,” said Zelensky in a video address.

twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498226752941965312

www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/28/russians-denounce-collective-punishment-for-ukraine-invasion

I do agree that we need to work on not alienating the ordinary Russian. At least via Social Media campaigns although I have no idea how much will get through to Russians. The message needs to be Russia is partly in Europe and we love Russians but do not like the regime. How do we get this across to ordinary Russians?

[quote vera99]⚡️Zelensky asks the EU for membership.

“We ask the European Union for Ukraine's immediate accession under a new special procedure,” said Zelensky in a video address.

twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498226752941965312[/quote]
What do we think the chances are of that happening?

What we might be considering now is that there are no geopolitical actors who can claim unquestionable moral authority. As adults, we may need to make decisions about which geopolitical actor is the least worst? Crudely, China (actual concentration camps and atrocities within its borders; battens down the contact that its people have with the social media elsewhere), Russia (eye-watering record on democide and human rights violations, and has never had a democratic transfer of power; as per China for restrictions on access to news and social media), or The West (with a record of interventions and wars that have consequences for people in countries elsewhere and use them to fight proxy wars)?

and

We should condemn the invasion and try to get back to diplomacy regarding the key issues of contention for Ukraine, Russia and NATO. The current context free borderline demonisation of a massive country and people is not conducive to that. Russia isn’t going anywhere and the huge issues of contention for Russia will not be going anywhere in the short term either. There are more lessons to be taken from WW2 than merely “wars of aggression are bad”. The gleeful demonisation of Russia and the cartoonish portrayal of its motivations isn’t conducive to future peace.

are excellent posts.

No harm in asking is there and there's a vacant seat at the table...

@GirlInACountrySong

This is a long thread, not read it all

But just seen on the news 4,500 Russian soldiers killed. So who has the responsibility of repatriating these young lads? I feel for them and their families too

Are the Ukrainian people expected to organise burials?

Sorry, it's not the questions I like asking!

The Ukrainian government have set up a hotline so Russian families can ring up and find out if their son has been killed/injured or is a pow.

Historically, the Red Cross has been involved in the identification/repatriation of fallen soldiers, but don't know if they are more focused on the needs of the living at the moment on the ground in Ukraine.

The BBC reported that the Russians had portable crematoriums following their troops, possibly so they don't have to deal with the optics of the bodies of fallen soldiers being brought home. So who knows what's actually happening.

@Papyrus and @TheSillyMastiff

Thankyou so much for the explanation, I was a bit scared to ask but it's been on my mind.

"We want them in"
Status: 02/28/2022 07:46 a.m
In the face of the war against Ukraine, some are calling for the country to be quickly made a candidate country. According to the will of the head of the EU Commission, Ukraine should become part of the international community, at least in the future.Ursula von der Leyen, head of the EU Commission, wants Ukraine to become a member of the EU. When asked by a reporter about Ukraine's inclusion on Sunday, she told the Euronews broadcaster: "Over time, they really do belong to us. They're one of us and we want them in there."

www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/ukraine-eu-mitgliedschaft-101.html

Lest we forget, the invasion of Iraq was hugely unpopular in the UK. The British Stop the War Coalition (Stop) protest in London was the largest political demonstration in the city's history. Police estimated attendance as well in excess of 750,000 people and the BBC estimated that around a million attended.

More than six million people signed the petition for a referendum on the Brexit deal the UK was going to sign up to.

[quote vera99]⚡️Zelensky asks the EU for membership.

“We ask the European Union for Ukraine's immediate accession under a new special procedure,” said Zelensky in a video address.

twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498226752941965312[/quote]
What would be the benefits of this for Ukraine? Is it likely to cause repercussions?

[quote GirlInACountrySong]**@Papyrus* and @TheSillyMastiff*

Thankyou so much for the explanation, I was a bit scared to ask but it's been on my mind. [/quote]
My late husband said one of the most bizzare and inhumane things he had seen at war was the "human bin lorry". As a British soldier where repatriation of the deceased ceremonial or actual is so important to them, for their families, for closure to watch on site cremation was brutal. Just total disregard for the men and their families.

Absolutely awful news to hear that Russian missiles hit a childrens cancer hospital, killing one and injuring others.

Not being funny but why would they have wanted Trump in office. I think he would have been more of a problem for them than Clinton

Absolutely not. Clinton has spoken many a time on the threat of Russia and has not been wrong.

Trump was soft on Russia. I could do you hundreds of links but don't wish to derail.

And... And if the Bexit referendum was thrown then again why
Surely that's obvious.

Destabilisation. It pushed the EU into disarray. Other countries may take our lead and leave. Weakening European unit.
I could go on...

You will find this link (and others like this) of the mobile crematoriums that follow the Russian soldiers. They are not sent back to their mothers, but incinerated immediately. It is utterly barbaric.

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/23/russia-deploys-mobile-crematorium-follow-troops-battle/

Post for girls

I could go on...

Please don't rousette

Did anyone hear the journalist on LBC just now? I missed the beginning but he was describing how difficult it is to get food and basic supplies in Kyiv - long walks to supermarkets and then hours of queuing. 2.5 million still in the city and they are effectively cut off from supply lines. He predicted that it would be a humanitarian crisis within days.
Don't know why I'm posting. It just brought the impact on your average family so sharply in to focus.

@Beefcurtains79

Can someone start another thread with just updates on the current situation? I’m finding that really useful and informative, however the constant brexit/boris interjections are making it hard to keep up with the rolling news and facts.

Yes I ageee. This was an informative thread with valid updates and military strategies, which has got completely side tracked into something else.

Well done Russian Bots!

Keepyourheadscrewedon

Someone asked a question, I answered it. I'm not going to 'go on', I promise.

I was hoping if we ignore all the boring Brexit and Boris bashing, it might go away.