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The Invasion Has Stalled

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 27/02/2022 18:07

So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Alexandra2001 · 28/02/2022 09:17

Of the 35 billionaires and ‘enablers’ of Putin on a list drawn up by opposition leader Alexei Navalny, only two have been targeted by Johnson

Quite incredible plus the rather pathetic "offer" of help to only take in Ukrainians if the have immediate family members here settled in the UK.
Yes i understand concerns on the London property market and MPs property portfolio's but if Germany can change its stance on weapons and Swift, then i hope this policy (announced last night) will be revised but it does show the mindset of our leaders..

A 3 year temporary visa, as the EU has done is what is required.... what happened to leaving the EU so we can be more "nimble" on policy?

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 28/02/2022 09:18

After a slow start, the EU seem to be really stepping up to the mark now.

Pernot165 · 28/02/2022 09:20

[quote Notonthestairs]"Ukrainian delegation has arrived to the border for peace talks.

The delegation is led by Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov and MP David Arakhamia, leader of Zelensky’s party."

twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1498217798371364868?s=21[/quote]
I have everything crossed for a resolution, I just can't help but think it's a trap.

My heart is with Ukraine today. Whatever happens, Zelensky is going down in history as a hero.

Cam77 · 28/02/2022 09:21

Lets hope Russia has a quietly heroic backroom diplomat too.

Oh I don’t know, it’s kind of more fun just demonsing them and totally ignoring the context which led to this conflict. As tragic as it is, what Russia has done so far militarily is absolutely nothing compared to what the US did in the the opening weeks invasion Iraq, with 7000+ children killed directly by US forces and bombs in a matter of weeks. I don’t remember the whole scale demonization of an entire nation back then. In fact I distinctly remember some Americans and Europeans getting “cancelled” for NOT supporting the bloodshed. I do not support this Russian invasion at all, but the hypocrisy is astounding and the narrative of virtually the whole of Western media (particularly) TV news ridiculously simplistic and one note.

katem98 · 28/02/2022 09:22

[quote Notonthestairs]"Ukrainian delegation has arrived to the border for peace talks.

The delegation is led by Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov and MP David Arakhamia, leader of Zelensky’s party."

twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1498217798371364868?s=21[/quote]
🤞🏼🙏🏼

workisnotawolf · 28/02/2022 09:23

My personal belief is that the step up we saw yesterday of the EU is a very good thing. I believe whilst it looks like they are taking a stronger anti-Russia position, they are actually going to try and meet Russia half way on the NATO question for Ukraine. The ties of France with Russia, for example, go back centuries. The distrust Russia has is primarily with the US. It is important that the EU takes a strong stance here and welcomes Russia in some sort of way, not sure how, but Russians need to see that dealing with a European force is going to be better than dealing with NATO dominated by the US.

WhiteJellycat · 28/02/2022 09:23

In regards to the 8 year war on Twitter, do we think Russia got the Matt Hancock footage and party gate info? Not wanting to derail because it was all shocking. But I always thought it was Cummings. But really that's a lot of info. Is he that clever and determined?

nettie434 · 28/02/2022 09:23

It was investigated in a huge amount of detail and nothing of substance was found.

Was that a typo because there was a huge amount of evidence that Russia interfered in the US election? And in the 2016 Brexit referendum but unlike here the investigation in the US was exhaustive and much more of the details have been published.

MarshaBradyo · 28/02/2022 09:23

I think views behind the scenes in Russia are key but likely mixed

A former member of Putin’s party was on R4 this morning and yes all the same lines as Putin’s - can’t recall his name but wish I’d hard more clearly

Oth someone was fired - has that been confirmed - so that shows resistance

Both worry me tbh as being fired for resistance leaves us vulnerable too

MarshaBradyo · 28/02/2022 09:25

[quote Notonthestairs]"Ukrainian delegation has arrived to the border for peace talks.

The delegation is led by Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov and MP David Arakhamia, leader of Zelensky’s party."

twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1498217798371364868?s=21[/quote]
All strong thoughts for it to go well

Player456 · 28/02/2022 09:25

It's interesting, but infuriating, watching RT News, but it's easy to see why Russians may believe the propaganda of Moscow.

At the security council meeting, Russia refuted the 'West's lies', claiming that atrocities seen in Ukraine, were actually taken in Syria, Iraq and even from American video game footage!

They had an emotive scene of Russian soldiers, liberating a little old lady, cuddling her whilst she cried and pointed towards where the Ukrainian shooters were (not seen or heard).

Just now they're discussing the banning of RT News in the EU, claiming that Russians can now see the price of freedom of speech.

NobodysGonnaKnow · 28/02/2022 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 28/02/2022 09:30

I would have more confidence in Russian intention if they had asked their troops to pause whilst 'peace talks' take place. It is hard to take them at their word, whilst they continue to bomb Ukraine relentlessly.

Hlglu56 · 28/02/2022 09:37

Listened to this podcast last night. It interested me near the end when they said Ukraine is an up and coming country with lots of potential with its food growing market. Apparently they’ve recently changed a law which means foreigners can buy land there which has attracted the attention of rich Arabs etc. Maybe that’s why the UAE didn’t vote in the UN. Has anyone seen anything about this, I’d like to read more about it. We all need to feed our growing populations so maybe the Ukraine could become very rich with the right investment etc and therefore a potential threat/ ally.

access.historyhit.com/latest-podcasts/videos/russia-and-ukraine-a-quick-history

Mb76 · 28/02/2022 09:40

@Player456

It's interesting, but infuriating, watching RT News, but it's easy to see why Russians may believe the propaganda of Moscow.

At the security council meeting, Russia refuted the 'West's lies', claiming that atrocities seen in Ukraine, were actually taken in Syria, Iraq and even from American video game footage!

They had an emotive scene of Russian soldiers, liberating a little old lady, cuddling her whilst she cried and pointed towards where the Ukrainian shooters were (not seen or heard).

Just now they're discussing the banning of RT News in the EU, claiming that Russians can now see the price of freedom of speech.

This is exactly the tactics they’ve been using since Crimea and Donbas and sadly people living there have been easily fooled by this Kremlin narrative. I know this because some of my own family and many old school friends in Donetsk totally have been believing these lies for 8 years now.
Newrunner29 · 28/02/2022 09:42

@Cam77

Lets hope Russia has a quietly heroic backroom diplomat too.

Oh I don’t know, it’s kind of more fun just demonsing them and totally ignoring the context which led to this conflict. As tragic as it is, what Russia has done so far militarily is absolutely nothing compared to what the US did in the the opening weeks invasion Iraq, with 7000+ children killed directly by US forces and bombs in a matter of weeks. I don’t remember the whole scale demonization of an entire nation back then. In fact I distinctly remember some Americans and Europeans getting “cancelled” for NOT supporting the bloodshed. I do not support this Russian invasion at all, but the hypocrisy is astounding and the narrative of virtually the whole of Western media (particularly) TV news ridiculously simplistic and one note.

Isn't that just a whataboutism thou? However thoughtful?
Newrunner29 · 28/02/2022 09:43

When say thoughtful I'm not nessasery agreeing wasn't sure of word to use

Scianel · 28/02/2022 09:43

@Cam77 you've summarised my thoughts exactly. It's such a marked difference of response.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 28/02/2022 09:47

Oh I don’t know, it’s kind of more fun just demonsing them and totally ignoring the context which led to this conflict

Care to share what you believe that context to be @Cam77 ?

I feel sorry for the average Russian, who wouldn't ? Certainly not demonising them.

DGRossetti · 28/02/2022 09:48

Anyone argue with the truth of this ?

The Invasion Has Stalled
MarshaBradyo · 28/02/2022 09:50

I have every sympathy for Russians caught up in this if they don’t want it.

Putin is clear that NATO / West is to blame - some sympathise with that on here too.

dreamingbohemian · 28/02/2022 09:51

Russian political subversion and information operations, in Europe and the US, is very relevant to what's happening today.

In the early 2000s, Putin shifted toward a more confrontational stance toward NATO/the West, which has steadily increased since. The problem is that, with the exception of its nuclear arsenal, Russia lacked the military capabilities and global reach of its rivals. That is what Putin has been trying to improve for 20 years.

So what can Russia do against NATO and European states? Try to weaken them from within. There is nothing new about this, both sides did this all the time during the Cold War.

The Russians knew Trump well and correctly saw that his election would cause serious domestic problems in the US and weaken faith in the NATO alliance. (And there is no doubt they tried to influence the elections: www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ICA-declass-16MAR21.pdf
www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download

In France, Russia has been funding and supporting people like Marine Le Pen, who would take France out of NATO and the EU.
In Germany, Russia funded a number of very influential politicians and the far-right AFD party, and RT had a huge presence there. Part of the aim was to support policies that would keep Germany dependent on Russian energy and sceptical of NATO.
In Hungary, Russia propped up Orban, until recently an obstacle to more assertive NATO/EU policies against Russia.

So do you really think Russia would do all this (and more), but not try to influence UK politics in any way? Of course not.

All of this is relevant because it helps explain why European states, and the US until 2021, did not really do much to counter growing Russian aggression. And the fact that they are now responding so robustly suggests that all of these political subversion achievements have been mostly erased. So we will probably see a much stronger anti-Russia platform in Europe going forward.

dreamingbohemian · 28/02/2022 09:51

(Sorry for the long post!)

ChimChimeny · 28/02/2022 09:51

I'm finding things like this so heartening in such awful times:

Dee Snider Supports Ukrainians Blasting "We're Not Gonna Take It" as Their Rallying Cry -

mobile.twitter.com/deesnider/status/1498022861813923844

BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation · 28/02/2022 09:52

@DHRossetti Urgh, Patel 😖