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Original poster

The Invasion Has Stalled

999 replies

Damnloginpopup · 27/02/2022 18:07

So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
OmaSwims · 27/02/2022 23:11

www.flightradar24.com/
Link to flight radar as requested above

MarshaBradyo · 27/02/2022 23:12

@EsmaCannonball

I'm actually finding the television news channels really frustrating at the moment. You would think that 24 rolling news would give scope for more live reporting and more breaking news but the BBC and Sky seem wedded to set formats, repeat segments and zoom calls with people who write opinion pieces for online magazines. Twitter has more up-to-date information but also a shitload of dodgy and misleading stuff to wade through. I miss the days of Kate Adie.
I don’t watch the news but find Times Radio quite good

Lots of insight with various people

TheABC · 27/02/2022 23:13

*The irony is that this is what Putin has been worrying about - a large EU block, with an 'EU army' and the ability to collectively deny transit/trade as well as impose financial sanctions.

If you look at it outside of this situation (in which it seems like a great thing, being used to defeat The Baddie), then it is kind of alarming - that is a lot of power.*

Yes, it is a lot of power. But if the EU/NATO did not exist, there would still be a loose trade agreement and alliances between states to avoid annexation - along with a lot more squabbles and minor wars as has been the case throughout European history. Since the second world war, we have see the trend of coherent superpower blocks - China, USA, Russia and India. Why not Europe? Why are the individual countries more special than (say) Texas or Maharashta? Are you condemning the USA for having an army and a reserve currency?

The days of the British Empire are over. So is the idea of solo standards or go-it-alone diplomacy in an urban, interconnected world. Like it or not, the blocks with the the critical mass of people, money and resources behind them set the agenda. As we see now.

Roussette · 27/02/2022 23:15

@fiefofum

I linked to some really useful journaistic sites on the ground in Ukraine on one of my posts. I can't link them again as am on my phone now, but it's further upthread Smile

WeAreTheHeroes · 27/02/2022 23:16

Some of the stories that go viral are fact checked before the likes of the BBC report them. The Ghost of Kyiv was false based on footage of a fighter plane filmed on another occasion. The suicide of the Gazprom FD was widely reported last night. It wasn't the FD at all. The reports about Anonymous haven't been corroborated and repeated by many legitimate new sources.

WeAreTheHeroes · 27/02/2022 23:18

That reads wrong: the likes of the BBC fact check before they publish because they reputation depends on their integrity. They'll fact check everything.

Justanotherlurker · 27/02/2022 23:18

Do to the policy of handing out guns to Ukrainian civilians and telling them to fight as though they were soldiers, it's likely that there will be many civilian deaths in due course

It's likely, but it's to show Russia that it's going to be a long drawn out response, even putting in a puppet government there is going to be an armed resistance.

Scraggythang · 27/02/2022 23:22

Hi @RedToothBrush tbf I’m not on Twitter anymore. But I’m finding my personal Reddit feed behind and Google for me personally is giving news that is not current.

What’s interesting is that we are not all seeing the same thing.

I’m not paranoid per se. I specifically don’t comment too much here because I know there are people who are much more educated than me and I don’t really want an attack. But I’m saying what I see. I’m not great at putting my thoughts into words, but I’m well read and I’m obsessive: something is not right on my particular feed of the internet.

TheSillyMastiff · 27/02/2022 23:22

What I tend to do is browse Twitter, pick up on feeds and sources and mentally note them.

Then if in about 20minutes the BBC "verifies" the same thing I'll go back and follow that account as a "ok, high chance this one's ok" sorta thing.

Papyrus · 27/02/2022 23:24

For those tracking on Flightradar24 AFL111 is currently flying over Canada in spite of the ban. Have they been given an exemption do you think?

dreamingbohemian · 27/02/2022 23:25

@Rocaille

I thought that to invade another sovereign state was in itself a war crime. The Americans do it all the time, but I suppose they never get prosecuted because they're a super power. I'm certainly no legal expert, so perhaps someone else can clarify.

Do to the policy of handing out guns to Ukrainian civilians and telling them to fight as though they were soldiers, it's likely that there will be many civilian deaths in due course.

Strictly speaking, a war crime is a violation of international humanitarian law, or the law of armed conflict, which are the rules that apply once a war has started. So for example, targeting civilians, using unlawful weapons, killing POWs, etc.

Invading a country is unlawful in a different way. It's a violation of the laws regarding when it's acceptable to start a war in the first place. Today, the UN Charter makes it unlawful to invade another country except in very rare circumstances (self-defence or if the Security Council authorises it).

So technically invading another country is not a war crime in that legal sense (though it is an international crime, the crime of aggression) but in everyday terms yes we would call someone who does that a war criminal. And really, anyone who invades a country for no reason is likely to commit war crimes after doing so.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2022 23:26

@EsmaCannonball

I'm actually finding the television news channels really frustrating at the moment. You would think that 24 rolling news would give scope for more live reporting and more breaking news but the BBC and Sky seem wedded to set formats, repeat segments and zoom calls with people who write opinion pieces for online magazines. Twitter has more up-to-date information but also a shitload of dodgy and misleading stuff to wade through. I miss the days of Kate Adie.
Follow accreditted journalists with international respected tv networks and newspapers, not just british ones. Add one then start adding who twitter recommends.

Its a good way to avoid too much crap.

I get way more stuff this way. Takes a while to set your account up for news, but after a while its pretty good. I also follow a few non-journalists who have a proven track record on source checking.

I do get some dodgy stuff, but its reasonable.

TV news channels are just stuck on 1hr loops. And not very detailed.

Justanotherlurker · 27/02/2022 23:26

That reads wrong: the likes of the BBC fact check before they publish because they reputation depends on their integrity. They'll fact check everything

They don't fact check everything as they have been caught out as well, they just use trusted sources, but this is the fog of war and the early days you can't really rely on anything being concrete, also it's not like BBC/legacy media haven't run articles, news stories based off just a few tweets in the past (the Russian tank driving over the car as one example). It's that they understand the fog of war situation a bit more than people looking on tiktok and insta for the hot takes and repeating them as authority

BigHuff · 27/02/2022 23:27

Very interesting read - thank you.

Pernot165 · 27/02/2022 23:27

With regards to Zelensky staying put in Ukraine and declining an offer to evacuate him, does anybody know whether his wife and children will have been evacuated regardless or whether they're likely to remain in Ukraine with him?

His youngest child is just 9 years old.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2022 23:27

@Scraggythang

Hi *@RedToothBrush* tbf I’m not on Twitter anymore. But I’m finding my personal Reddit feed behind and Google for me personally is giving news that is not current.

What’s interesting is that we are not all seeing the same thing.

I’m not paranoid per se. I specifically don’t comment too much here because I know there are people who are much more educated than me and I don’t really want an attack. But I’m saying what I see. I’m not great at putting my thoughts into words, but I’m well read and I’m obsessive: something is not right on my particular feed of the internet.

Never got on with Google news tbh. I can never find stories, I've previous read on there. Its just plain crap.

I never actively tweet. Just watch.

Sideorderofchips · 27/02/2022 23:30

Anyone else see one sky news just now an expert describing Russia icbm missiles, the kt of nuclear detonation and where they can reach/impact

Not something I ever thought I would see on the TV news

BeyondPurpleTulips · 27/02/2022 23:30

My Twitter is sporadically getting "tweets are not loading" message.

It's always been shonky though, I doubt it's related

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2022 23:30

Anyway, off to bed. I am expecting bad news over night. Doesn't look promising tonight for Ukraine. Expecting much more heavier bombing and possible break through into Kyiv.

Fangdango · 27/02/2022 23:33

@Pernot165

With regards to Zelensky staying put in Ukraine and declining an offer to evacuate him, does anybody know whether his wife and children will have been evacuated regardless or whether they're likely to remain in Ukraine with him?

His youngest child is just 9 years old.

His family has been sent to a safe place, I read.
Original poster
Damnloginpopup · 27/02/2022 23:36

@ilovebrie8

Calm down *@SugarAndSpiceIsNice* I didn’t mean to offend you .I was simply stating there is a thread about this topic already ...and you are posting the exact posts on both ...not sure why!?
I'm glad she is. This is a wide thread which is full of so much information as well as conjecture and all are welcome to add whatever snippets they have. The more pens and pencils the better the picture. Carry on please *@SugarAndSpiceIsNice*
OP posts:
Pernot165 · 27/02/2022 23:37

His family has been sent to a safe place, I read.

Oh thank goodness. They've been at the forefront of my mind since I read about the Chechens being sent in with decks of cards showing the faces of targets to be assassinated. Zelensky said he was #1 and his family #2.

Thank you OP and contributors for these threads.

StormzyinaTCup · 27/02/2022 23:37

@RedToothBrush

Anyway, off to bed. I am expecting bad news over night. Doesn't look promising tonight for Ukraine. Expecting much more heavier bombing and possible break through into Kyiv.
I thought that when I went to bed last night and was so pleased to wake up this morning to find the worst had not happened. I'm really, really hoping and crossing everything that tomorrow morning will be the same.
BlancheB · 27/02/2022 23:42

@Aubrrgin

I think money might stop this one before morals. Hopefully very soon.

News agencies put the cost to Russia at about $20 BILLION (!!) a day.

The rouble is crashing.

Putin will be out of funds quickly.

There’ll be a run on the banks very shortly.

Sadly, it’s Russian citizens who’ll suffer the most compared to their countrymen who have caused this war. Economic recovery will take decades.

You’d love to see the Kremlin stormed and a rehash of the French Revolution.

Hopefully, there’ll be financial support for Ukraine but the impact on those who survive will be huge.

I was watching a story on the Irish news tonight. Ukrainian men living in Dublin are flying to Poland and continue into Ukraine via landbridge to join the fight.

It’s just unfathomable.

Who says Putin will be out of funds very quickly? Confused Your source please?

He's making (has made) a fortune out of natural energy resources such as coal, oil & gas.