The Invasion Has Stalled

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So here we go. Four days in and the third consecutive thread on the conflict in Ukraine. The last two threads are a credit to the members of mumsnet. Who knows where thread four may find our world?

Thank you all.

Thread two : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4491025-The-Invasion-Continues

That's great news Beyond.
I watched (BBC) a lady earlier today who was trying to get her Mum into the UK. Her Mum had travelled from the Ukraine to Paris but at that time couldn't get into the UK as her Mum was not classed as 'dependant'
Hopefully that's now changed.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0014wm8

I don’t know if the link works (not very good at these things) but yesterday on the Today programme Tim Snyder from Yale University gave an excellent explanation on the historical perspective as to why Putin is doing what he’s doing. Worth listening

@FatFredsFriedEgg

We are witnessing the emergence of a global power in this crisis: the European Union.

I'm still trying to fully absorb the EU's actions but on first impression I'm hugely impressed. They've gone far beyond what I'd expected.

Always been a fan but how sad we wont be part of it.

Farage, Banks and the other Putin funded propagandists who helped to foist Brexit upon us - made hay with talk of an EU army and immigrants flooding our doors and British exceptionalism. They along with Boris even had the gall to accuse the EU of fomenting Ukrainian secession.

Germany has a lot to lose if the gas stops but hasn't hesitated to make the right decisions whereas the UK is stuck in a backwards-looking we won WW2 exceptionalism. Europe knows what occupation looks like they have suffered twice on their soil and it was out of those ashes the EU was born.

And before anybody accuses me of a thread derail we are here because Putin felt emboldened with the election of Trump and Brexit which played into his narrative of a disunited decadent west that wouldn't thwart his imperial ambitions.

Very late to this thread and haven't really rtft.

I'm scared out of my wits. I never cry over the news, I feel sad but today there have been tears. For the people of Ukraine and the rest of the world in general.

Can somebody reassure me? Is the news we are seeing unbiased? Is there another side to this that we aren't being told? I looked at Al jazera as a friend said more balanced but that scared me even more.

Is there any way out of this? Russia are not going to back down

@BeyondPurpleTulips "immediate family" is very narrowly defined and wouldn't include the parent or siblings of an adult.

twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1498052859119742977?s=21

@dreamingbohemian

I honestly never expected the EU to respond so robustly. Even on the first day of the invasion, they seemed very wishy-washy.

The real surprise to me is Germany, which held out the longest on financial sanctions and now is ready to finance lethal weapons aid, massively rearm itself, and go back to nuclear energy to reduce their dependence on Russian energy.

Switzerland is freezing assets. Sweden and Finland are talking about joining NATO. A very diverse range of countries is supplying weapons and now possibly even fighter jets!

It's like Europe has woken up and realised they actually are kind of powerful and can stand up to Russia. Putin must be completely shocked by this.

I think we’re all shocked! I wonder if Merkel would have done the same had she still been chancellor…

@vera99

Farage, Banks and the other Putin funded propagandists who helped to foist Brexit upon us - made hay with talk of an EU army and immigrants flooding our doors and British exceptionalism. They along with Boris even had the gall to accuse the EU of fomenting Ukrainian secession.

Germany has a lot to lose if the gas stops but hasn't hesitated to make the right decisions whereas the UK is stuck in a backwards-looking we won WW2 exceptionalism. Europe knows what occupation looks like they have suffered twice on their soil and it was out of those ashes the EU was born.

And before anybody accuses me of a thread derail we are here because Putin felt emboldened with the election of Trump and Brexit which played into his narrative of a disunited decadent west that wouldn't thwart his imperial ambitions.

I think some view UK actions through a very negative lens and the opposite for EU no matter what.

I’d prefer more balance but I’m probably in the minority.

"Accidentally published and revoked but archived - reveals the true plan (will need translating in app unless you read Russian!)."

Already been translated

mobile.twitter.com/fabtknz/status/1498034191673757696

@LuluBlakey1

I have an awful feeling about Kyiv tonight. The papers are saying satellites are showing pictures of it surrounded by Russian troups. They will hunt down and kill Zelenskyy or take him to Russia as a prisoner and try him for war crimes in a Kangaroo court. All the roads from Kyiv are blocked and there will be no evacuation of civilians. It's dreadful.

I feel like tonight is the night for Kyiv too. It's just a horrible feeling.

Has anyone listened to the Putin's Nuclear Reaction which is on the front screen of BBC news? Can you give your interpretation of what Dr Patricia Lewis is reporting?
Please do not listen if you are feeling anxious at all as it is going over specifics which are unlikely.

@SugarAndSpiceIsNice my contacts at both the Nigerian & Ghanaian embassies say that women and children are being prioritised st the border. They say there aren’t any problems as far as they’re concerned, Emotions are running high - people are scared, tired, cold and hungry - but the border guards are doing their best. I trust my direct sources more than your accusations.

@spleencoffin

Does Putin have a wife? Children?

I think he's divorced. Has a daughter and son-in-law. No idea if there are any grandchildren..

Has anyone seen the recent update on BBC news regarding Russian state media and what one of its "presenters" have said this evening?

Small extract:

During his evening programme tonight, Russian state TV presenter Dmitry Kiselyov delivered a monologue in which he posed the question: "why do we need a world if Russia's not in it?"

He was considering President Putin’s announcement today that he is putting Russia’s nuclear forces on high alert.

"In total our submarines are capable of launching over 500 nuclear warheads, which guarantees the destruction of the US and all Nato countries to boot," he said on his Vesti Nedeli show.

"That's according to the principle 'why do we need a world if Russia's not in it?'

Absolutely worrying, Putin isn't the only mad man in town....

He has two adult daughters from his first marriage (and at least one grandchild) and its rumoured he has maybe three younger children with that former Russian Olympic gymnast.

@ThesecondLEM

Very late to this thread and haven't really rtft.

I'm scared out of my wits. I never cry over the news, I feel sad but today there have been tears. For the people of Ukraine and the rest of the world in general.

Can somebody reassure me? Is the news we are seeing unbiased? Is there another side to this that we aren't being told? I looked at Al jazera as a friend said more balanced but that scared me even more.

Is there any way out of this? Russia are not going to back down

I don't think anyone can offer reassurance sadly.

The simple fact is that this crisis has been engineered by a man whose priorities cannot be measure by standard morality and over whom there is very limited influence.

I think he's grossly miscalculated the international response to this invasion but the impact on Russia vs the impact to his ego isn't going to be balanced appropriately I fear.

Having gone "all in" I'm really struggling to think of a way he can back down without losing face.

I’ve just discovered this thread and it’s really informative. Thank you.

I came across this article explaining the history between the countries - the part about Ukraine being a founder member of the UN blew my mind.
www.chathamhouse.org/2021/11/ukraine-russia-relations

Absolutely worrying, Putin isn't the only mad man in town....

You do realise that (a) the presenters are told what to say, it is propaganda and (b) a TV presenter is not able to launch a nuke.

[quote Notonthestairs]@BeyondPurpleTulips "immediate family" is very narrowly defined and wouldn't include the parent or siblings of an adult.

twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1498052859119742977?s=21

[/quote]
aww come on!! Ffs.

I’m glad that the elephant in the room has been addressed - that Volodymyr Zelenskyy is hot 😆

On a positive note I’ve seen that reports of Kyiv being surrounded were a miscommunication. Here’s hoping!

I think some view UK actions through a very negative lens and the opposite for EU no matter what

I’d prefer more balance but I’m probably in the minority

I ve been on here long enough to realise that you will always take the Con/BJ side and always a negative against the EU or Labour.

There is a huge amount of evidence that shows that BJ and the Tory party have done almost nothing against Russian money, even a dissident in London today said exactly the same thing (re Londongrad) but its always a pro BJ response from you, whilst pleading neutrality and balance or the best one "i'm a floating voter"

Re zelensky

I saw a young Ukrainian woman on tiktok saying, she didn’t vote for him, while she liked him as a comic and actor she just didn’t think he had the experience to be a politician - but that he’s stepped up and is being the leader they need.

And before anybody accuses me of a thread derail we are here because Putin felt emboldened with the election of Trump and Brexit which played into his narrative of a disunited decadent west that wouldn't thwart his imperial ambitions

Imagine typing this and trying to come across as the 'critical thinker', I suppose 2014 was because of Trump and Brexit as well...

(You may need to go read someone's Twitter page about 2014 to understand the reference)

[quote dreamingbohemian]I had to laugh at this:

"BREAKING: every woman in your life now has at least a small crush on Volodymyr Zelenskyy and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it"

twitter.com/salisbot/status/1498037195399127043[/quote]
I'm waiting for next year when every Ukranian baby boy will be christened Volodymyr.

@RedToothBrush

Truly strange things are happening today:

The President of Switzerland has announced that the country will join the EU sanctions against Russia.

Apparently 30% of Russian foreign assets are held in Switzerland - probably precisely because of its historical neutrality.

And its not just Switzerland doing odd things.

Brazil, normally votes with Russia at the UN. Thats the ultra right wing President Bolsonaro. They've just voted to support the emergency session of the General Assembly to bypass Russia's veto in the Security Council and has demanded a full cessation of hostilities.

Putin felt "The West" (or possibly The World) was increasingly acting against Russia, forcing it into an isolated and weak position. He made his move and I guess now he has been proven more correct than he anticipated.

Obviously I do not condone what Putin is doing, and am happy that other countries are doing what they can to support Ukraine's resistance - but I also do not want to see Russia completely without allies/semi-friendly relationships. A Putin who feels he has nothing to lose is probably not something anyone wants.

Very difficult to see how this is going to play out with Putin still in office.