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Russia puts its nuclear deterrent on high alert

713 replies

Libertybear80 · 27/02/2022 14:04

Does anyone know what that actually means? Is he threatening nuclear war?

OP posts:
Marmelace · 27/02/2022 18:02

I actually mentioned to my oldest son that Putin had a yellow tinge this morning, thinking he had something going on with his kidneys.

Juno22 · 27/02/2022 18:02

Honestandfair complete nonsense and all you are doing is frightening people.

Jenasaurus · 27/02/2022 18:03

The US has moved to DEFCON 2

www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/who-blinks-first-in-ukraine

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 27/02/2022 18:03

The world will need to manage an exit that looks like Putin has 'won' live it can be done and does not mean we are doomed. There will be experts at the highest levels all over the world working out how to manage the next move and collaboration now at a global level. Behaviour experts etc etc will all be looking at this now.
Of course not a single country on this planet will be assuming he is now a coherent and sane, and will be taking this very seriously indeed, I am sure China is now very much sitting up and taking some proper notice.

These statements are actions of a desperate man - but we can deescalate and that is why the talks now are important. The last 24 hours are showing a very different picture emerge - Russia pleading for back up from other countries, not winning in any meaningful way and the whole world at one with Ukraine.

He wants you feel scared and abandon Ukraine, which is why he said it. Putting something on high alert is pretty meaningless if you think about it. I am on high alert for any chocolate biscuits this evening.

Jenasaurus · 27/02/2022 18:04

and that was 2 weeks ago, so maybe just being prepared and nothing more

LightfoldEngines · 27/02/2022 18:04

@RedToothBrush thankyou for that post, the only way I’ve been able to explain it to my eldest DD who is 13 is that an increasingly irrelevant man has decided to swing his tiny dick around, it’s backfired because he’s such a Narc he can’t imagine things not going his way and now he’s probably having a cry wank whilst muttering that everyone still loves him and he IS a big boy that everyone is definitely scared of BlushGrin

I’m not the most articulate (unless it’s Science, that I can explain very, very well), but I am creative Grin

Chestofdraws · 27/02/2022 18:04

Putin isn’t young, he will be 70 in October. It’s likely he does have something wrong with him, and western intelligence will know exactly what it is. His supposed extreme fear over Covid would indicate he’s clinically vulnerable. But being Ill doesn’t mean he is at end of life. He could naturally go for years and years yet.

What happens here and if he survives it will be interesting to see, I suspect the man would rather die than lose power and I suspect he won’t back down and admit a mistake, so I imagine the western leaders are advising the Ukrainian prime minister of possible positions to take that might allow Putin to back down and look like he’s won to his people.

If they can’t find a solution for him to be able to do this, then I think there is a chance he will behave even more erratically until it does cost him his life. His over riding objective right now will be to show he has won and that he made the right decision. Nothing less will suffice.

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 27/02/2022 18:05

If he has a yellow tinge then it almost certainly his liver.

Abra1d1 · 27/02/2022 18:06

@Livelovebehappy

This is why I think we need to stop threatening anything other than sanctions. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people, but we absolutely cannot put our own country at risk from an attack. We’re an island, away from the rest of Europe, and he might think it’s easy to make us a target to flex his muscles to other countries. Surely there must be someone who is guarding him who would be willing to turn against him and put a bullet in his head. It’s all very well people cheering on Ukraine to beat him, but the reality is that should they win (highly unlikely) Putin will not admit the humiliation of defeat on any level, and it’s then that we will all be in an extremely vulnerable position.
We are in NATO. An attack on one is an attack on all. Could be Scotland, Poland, Italy, Romania… Or the US. He knows that.
MadameMinimes · 27/02/2022 18:07

@Livelovebehappy

The problem with craven capitulation to the likes of Putin is that nothing you give him will ever be enough. Cowardice will not keep us safe.

Bunnyfuller · 27/02/2022 18:09

I’m ex-RAF. I left in 2007, voluntary redundancy. This came about because my role as a linguist no longer needed many in my specialist language. Russian.

They’ve always sabre-rattled, sending Bears down into our airspace, spy ships following our navy to name a few things. When they bombed Georgia in 2007/2008 I was honestly expecting to be summoned back as it was clear he had ambitions. Nope, the West did nothing. Then a few years on Crimea. Again, pretty much nothing. Sanctions were not fierce enough to deter him, and he was still treated as an accepted world leader, despite invading other countries. From that point on I am sure he was planning.

I agree it isn’t going as he had perhaps hoped, and am sure the immediate western solidarity was a shock too - let’s face it, we’ve spent the last few years showboating some fucking clown statesmen, so he could be forgiven for expecting less unity.

I’m just not sure he’s sabre rattling any more. There’s a feeling of shit or bust to this now. I still can’t believe we’re even talking about this as a real thing. The pandemic was bizarre enough, like many of you I’m horrified my girls and all the worlds’ children are living through this. My youngest is heading towards GCSEs, stressing madly after 2 years of schooling lost, and here we are now.

I don’t think we are being terribly clever broadcasting all the intentions - you don’t warn the enemy of what’s coming. Surely the people with money will just move it elsewhere, if they haven’t already. And Truss saying she supported UK citizens going to Ukraine to fight is completely bizarre, and seems to directly challenge the position on no uk boots on the ground in Ukraine (mind you, Tories love a volunteer, saves paying for public services!)

Keepyourheadscrewedon · 27/02/2022 18:09

I am wondering if Trump still thinks he is a genius.

That comment has cost Trump any future chance of presidency. Even his own aides resigned over his use of language. There is zero chance even die hard Republicans will vote for him now, silver linings and all that.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2022 18:09

@Livelovebehappy

This is why I think we need to stop threatening anything other than sanctions. I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people, but we absolutely cannot put our own country at risk from an attack. We’re an island, away from the rest of Europe, and he might think it’s easy to make us a target to flex his muscles to other countries. Surely there must be someone who is guarding him who would be willing to turn against him and put a bullet in his head. It’s all very well people cheering on Ukraine to beat him, but the reality is that should they win (highly unlikely) Putin will not admit the humiliation of defeat on any level, and it’s then that we will all be in an extremely vulnerable position.
He wants to make the west blink and to split the unity over sanctions.

Thats now his primary objective.

This secondary objective is to appease his own.

Whether he will seriously consider a nuke is way down his thought process.

Garysmum · 27/02/2022 18:09

I would go as far as to say this is actually his last chance to do so...

I agree. Shortly it will beyond the point of no return. I think there is a very real risk he will deploy nuclear bombs. Not because he thinks it's going to win any conflict or do him any good, not because he wishes in particular to destroy the world or start WW3, but I think he is genuinely unstable. I don't think he ever thought this invasion would be anything other than quick.

I am sure opposition was expected. And a lot of political condemnation from around the world. However, I expect the timing was calculated based on the impact of covid and a response equivalent to that when Crimea was annexed was anticipated.

Except of course, that hasn't proved the case. Next step - heavy bombardment of Ukraine including bombing civilian areas. That might be his last pre-nuclear tactic to get the world to back down. He has to win something - even if that is being given some of Ukraine. He also has the support (Tacit or otherwise of some other countries eg India)

I think he is that unstable as a person, that he might press go on nuclear, even if against the majority of Russia's population's wishes or against the advice of his advisors/Government/Army. London is a pretty credible target if not the target.

Livelovebehappy · 27/02/2022 18:10

[quote chairbumg]**@Livelovebehappy* read @RedToothBrushs* post. You might learn something [/quote]
I have read redtoothbrushes excellent post, and would love to believe it, but there’s so much different interpretation and information from all sides, that it’s impossible for any of us to really understand what the outcome is going to be. I would love to think that putin is playing with our minds, but there is that small doubt that he might not be. He’s clearly unstable, and you can’t second guess someone who acts like this. It’s a very unpredictable situation.

goodnightgrumble · 27/02/2022 18:11

Really. He gives instructions to attack with a nuclear weapon to his nuclear team or whatever they are called! Do you really think it will be done without someone in his team stopping it. Surely they are not all insane. They aren't just going to say. Yes of course I will end the world as we know it!
It can't just be up to one man!

chairbumg · 27/02/2022 18:13

@Livelovebehappy but why do you think capitulation is a good thing? As already said war is just as much about perception & propaganda. The Ukraine's are doing well.

Also it's a bit much to expect others to roll over to protect you!

ErrolTheDragon · 27/02/2022 18:14

@RedToothBrush

Modern warfare isn't just about the battle field and weapons. Its never been - propaganda has always matters, but its mattered more and more since Vietnam and war reporting being constant do to the rise of mass media. In this sense, wars don't happen in far away places like they used to and governments have to manage their home front and their war front well.

Since Putin started the invasion things haven't gone well for Putin on the Propaganda War.

His pretext to war was that Russia needed to go to war because there was a threat to Russians in the disputed regions of Ukraine. He started a panic, and told people to evacuate because they were at risk. These pictures were broadcast back to Russia. The Russian parliament were asked to vote to recognise these regions - the suggestion being that this would maybe bring peace. Of course, since Putin was intending to invade this was a pile of rot. But none the less many Russians (including at least two Duma MPs who have since publicly said they feel misled) believed this to be true.

What Putin really underestimated was quite how good the Ukranian propaganda and communication would be. The Ukranian President didn't buckle and run away from the intimidation of the invasion. He stayed and has unifyed his people and managed to rally support around him. The resistance on the ground produced a lot of images which don't look good for Putin.

Instead of there being a resounding swift victory, there were images of broken down tanks and rather inept Russian soliders. This makes Putin as a military leader look weak.

His next response has been to shut down twitter, facebook and youtube in Russia. This isn't what many expected. There was a fear that instead Western social media would be filled with gloating Russians saying how strong they were and how the West were to blame etc etc. And this would scare the West and deter them from getting involved because their voters didn't want to get involved in a war far away from home.

Instead, the images have horrified the world and the Ukranian President has inspired strength and support.

Remember the war was about regaining Putin in particular an image of being in control and being strong - covid has been a blow to Russia and there have been increasing rumblings about Putin himself with small, but growing protests at his rule. He had felt as if Russia had been slighted and wasn't respected and he had an agenda about rebuilding the glory of the Soviet Sphere of influence under the Russian Flag.

So he's been a bit pissed at how things have gone before and he's facing growing questions about his leadership. The decision over SWIFT and sanctions have gone further than pretty much in the west thought possible, so it's very likely to have caught Putin off guard too. He hadn't planned for the eventuality.

Tomorrow its likely there will be a big run on the Russian banks as it kicks in and Russians suddenly realise this isn't a 'special operation' (the word war has been banned) and its not far away and is going to effect them badly. The war has been brought to their door so now Putin has to justify it.

So the address about nukes:

There are two audiences here - the Russian domestic audience and the International one.

Putin has two key things he needs to get across - a position of strength to counter the damage to his strongman reputation thats occurred and to try and fracture the western alliance and support for Ukraine via threats and intimidation.

He wants to frighten and concern western public - in order to try and get them to undermine support from their governments for supporting Ukraine. Talking about nukes is frightening. Its supposed to be. Its supposed to be fucking with your head. Its supposed to make you doubt that your country is doing the right thing. It does not mean he is definitely planning to use them. Its from a position of weakness in his military plans and his propaganda war so far. He's trying to control of the narrative back.

He also has to double down on the 'moral cause' of the pretext to the war. He has to play the victim, at risk from the West's aggression to justify the war, which is going to bring home a lot more body bags than he had imagined. Like Afghanistan, Iraq and Vietnam for the Americans, body bags going home upset normal Russians. He needs them to feel that they have no choice but to fight or support the war. So what better way to suggest you are being threatened than to ready the defensive nuclear units? Why would you do this if there's no threat? He's trying to rally his people in part to stave off the anger that the banking crisis will bring. Again this is coming from a position of weakness.

My point here is this isn't necessarily anything to do with an actual military threat of nukes.

This is probably more about the propaganda war and Putin's need for crisis management following the last few days of things not going as well as hoped and the danger of him being percieved as weak. Its the classic go on the offensive approach.

If you remember from the Iraq War and 'Comical Ali' as he became dubbed, this isn't necessarily dissimilar. Comical Ali went on TV saying there were no tanks near Baghdad to try and retain control of a rapidly degenerating situation, even as US forces were already within the city limits.

Dictators always must maintain the facade of control and being strong otherwise, they personally, are at risk of losing power.

This moment is a real moment of threat to Putin.

It is potentially a moment of great risk to Europe so we shouldn't automatically dismiss it, but we should certainly put it into clear context: this is a boss who has had a bad week and so is taking it out on his staff and blaming others inside and outside the company for his own fuckups. Whether he decides he ultimately want to liquidate the company just out of frustration and spite is a much bigger step to take and really not as likely.

He's trying to fuck with your head. Understand he's trying to manipulate and scare you.

I think the best thing to do with this thread is to quote this post at regular intervals.
Keepyourheadscrewedon · 27/02/2022 18:16

Thank you for your post bunny it is always good to get posts with RAF experience. Shit or bust, yes that does sound exactly where he is. I think of those children and even newborn babies being born as we speak in the bunkers, the grannies sitting in their kitchens right now in Kiev guarding their homes and I am not worrying about my girls. They are safe for now, but so many displaced families and such suffering and pain - it is just horrific after covid which we have all been through, and are still traumatised in some ways. Our lives are beginning to feel like a never ending nightmare of really bad American movies, and I think in a minute I will wake up and life will be as it was before.

Even if this ends tomorrow, the consequences to this will play out for generations - it has changed the world - just like covid did. And then I start going down the rabbit hole of connecting them....and then that is a frightening place and I can't recommend it! Grin

LightfoldEngines · 27/02/2022 18:16

@goodnightgrumble

Really. He gives instructions to attack with a nuclear weapon to his nuclear team or whatever they are called! Do you really think it will be done without someone in his team stopping it. Surely they are not all insane. They aren't just going to say. Yes of course I will end the world as we know it! It can't just be up to one man!
Oh, you’d be surprised at the sort of men a man like Putin is surrounded by. They most likely absolutely do buy into his bullshit.
Mummyratbag · 27/02/2022 18:17

Not read the whole thread, so no idea if this has been said, but there was a documentary about the Cold War on C4 many years ago which talked about how close we came to the nukes being launched.

Russian surveillance systems picked up incoming missiles from the US. The order was given to launch their own nuclear missiles. The codes etc were given and everything was ready to go when the person whose job it was to launch refused. He couldn't do it. In the meantime they realised that the US hadn't launched anything and the surveillance systems were mistaken. WW3 was averted. My point being it's not just a big red button on Putin's desk, others are involved and they hopefully aren't as far removed from reality as Putin. They are humans with families they love, they aren't machines.

Classica · 27/02/2022 18:18

He gives the order for a nuclear strike and he knows that means retaliation for Russia on a devastating scale. Parts of Russia just wiped out. I doubt those around him would be thrilled to be vapourised as a result of his bruised ego posturings so perhaps they can find a way to neutralise him. Permanently.

I feel the need to re-watch The Death of Stalin.

LightfoldEngines · 27/02/2022 18:18

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daisyjgrey · 27/02/2022 18:19

This doesn't indicate what you think it does. Stop googling nuclear bombs, stop drip feeding news all day and stop moving from one hypothetical outcome to the next. A lot of what is being spoken about has no citable source; some of the videos people are posting aren't recent. It's really dangerous to take everything as a given in this situation.

It's scary and new, but we can't control it and this is why we have highly skilled military personnel who deal with nuclear threat etc.

This lady on IG is excellent to follow with things like this:

https://instagram.com/lovely..lydia?utmmedium=copyylink

She isn't affiliated with any political party, has a history of working with EU government and a husband who is (amongst other things) an ex nuclear submariner. She delivers clear and concise information and doesn't have any time for misinformation.

veevee04 · 27/02/2022 18:19

I honestly don't believe he will get the chance to launch a nuke he will be bumped off before that. Putin isn't universally loved in Russia far from it, all it takes it is generals and the oligarchs banding together and it's over. He's just trying to get us to back down he's stuck in the 20th century it won't go well for him.