The invasion has begun

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Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

@icelolly12

I don't want ww3, sorry but we shouldn't get involved

I understand the fear and the hope that if we just leave him he will get fed up and stop …..

But if he doesn’t then what? Do we keep saying ‘oh well he’s only at Poland now let’s just see if he gets bored ‘ then ‘well it’s France now’ because although that’s very unlikely to happen it seem the more he can get away with the more he will want

@Tigersonvaseline

The sizes of weapons where not as extreme as back in Hitler era

I can't help feeling that something bigger is going on behind this...

Like what?

@Angelswithflirtyfaces

How do you propose they rebel and overthrow in an authoritarian country? Have you heard of Navalny?

You said yourself, it’s only 17% of a population of 144million. The Russian people are not the ones at fault here.

[quote Bootothegoose]@MarshaBradyo

So what? Let’s ignore it until it reaches our doorstep? Like we did with the Nazis?

We can’t avoid declaring war because it’s terrifying. We can’t refuse to intervene because we don’t want world war three.[/quote]
Boost NATO, re arm but try an take back Ukraine? crazy idea, whatever you think is terrible now, WW3 would almost certainly end in nuclear weapons and the end of humanity.

£700m dollars a day are spent on Russian oil etc by UK/EU every single day... start there.

[quote Angelswithflirtyfaces]@smorgasbords rebel? Unite to show the world Putin is on his own, overthrow him? They can do a lot by letting it hapoen surely they are as guilty?[/quote]
No, ordinary Russians are not ‘just as guilty’. Many of them will have family and friends in the Ukraine.

I won’t say what I want to right now but will just stop at letting you know you’re making yourself look silly with statements like that.

@Cornettoninja hear hear.

@Tigersonvaseline

Useful idiot's of course dear leader's Corybn strategy would have been far better

Don't recall him taking Russian money, playing tennis with KGB partners wives.... i'm no fan of Corbyn either but to ignore Johnsons links to Russia is stupid.

Farage, Johnson & the 52% were played by Putin.

@PerkingFaintly

I never thought I’d give Trump credit but I genuinely don’t think this would have happened if he’d still been President.

Eh? Sorry, that's mince.

Trump has just been praising Putin for declaring the invasion.

Trump praised Putin's justification to invade Ukraine as 'genius' and 'savvy'
www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-ukraine-invasion-justification-genius-savvy-2022-2?r=US&IR=T

That's after Trump said in 2016 he believed Putin's personal word above US intelligence – because it was personally convenient to him.

Trump sides with Russia against FBI at Helsinki summit
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44852812

Trump was fatally susceptible to flattery, and Putin knew how to play him perfectly.

Trump is a loose cannon, he sucks up to anyone who flatters him and especially dictators like Putin and Kim Jong-un because he can bask in their power and look good (I suspect that there was a lot of laughing going on behind his back in those photo shoots) He loves being flattered, shallow individual that he is.

None of this is a matter of being OK with it. Who wants to go to war? But hiding in the sand and saying no not our problem is how world wars get started

Sending troops in was the unequivocally how a world war would start

I would say world wars start when nobody has anything the aggressor wants.

They end when the aggressors resources and morale are depleted.

I might be wrong about this, but I truly do not think that Putin wants nuclear war either. I don’t think that’s naive, I think tactically every country knows the psychology behind nuclear weapons - MAD. He’s not an idiot, he wants a Russian Empire. He’s banking on fear of nuclear weapons meaning other countries with them won’t stand up to him. We need to show him that isn’t true. I would hope that would be enough to pause him.

I might be wrong and naive but I do have quite a lot of knowledge in this area and I do think there’s truth in what I’m saying.

I don’t think NATO/us putting boots on the ground leads to inevitable end of the world. In fact I think it’s more likely that we’ll see nuclear use if we just let Putin get on with this. Of course, I might be proven wrong but by then I’m sure I’ll have bigger things to worry about than Mumsnet!

crazy idea, whatever you think is terrible now, WW3 would almost certainly end in nuclear weapons and the end of humanity.

Yes it’s easier to bluster on here but this outcome should be avoided

Apparently putin has cancer and parkinsons.

I would say world wars start when nobody has anything the aggressor wants.

Can you say more on this - what do you mean wrt Putin

Ie what you think he wants that isn’t there

Corbyn and Trump are irrelevant now. Any speculation on what they could/couldn’t achieve is fantasy and nothing but divisive. It’s back to dragging up the diversionary bullshit of the last few years. If speculated Russian involvement is half of what is reported to be they’ve played an absolute blinder if you’re still banging on about it right now.

@workisnotawolf

My question was if Moldova could be next.

I think this is unlikely. There is not the same Russian attachment to Moldova (at least the part of Moldova they don't already occupy). There are not enough Russian forces in Transnistria to take the rest of Moldova. Unless Russia retakes all of Ukraine (which I don't think they will) then I wouldn't suspect further aggression against Moldova.

Racist slurs such as Astro-turfer (what does that mean) are offensive and misguided.

I am not Russian, I don’t sympathise with any country that bullies another. My post was trying to show where Putin’s head is at. I’m not saying it’s ok, but I think decisions around how to deal with the situation must look at why HE thinks he’s right. Nothing is ever resolved easily without trying to understand the other perspective, despite not agreeing with it.

In relation to the British govt, I did not vote for them, Boris Johnson is a venal, manipulative liar and the Tory party DO have close ties with Russia and it is widely known Putin DID do everything he could in pushing the pro-leave agenda. I also did note vote leave, I believe a united EU/Europe is the only way to hold stability against a threat as huge as the Russian military - only an EU army would have the united capability to counter it in fact.

Such abhorrent posts citing racist assumptions play into the hands to countries that say the UK is a racist, weak and arrogant country with delusions of Grandeur.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Apparently putin has cancer and parkinsons.

Whaaaaaaat?

I was just talking o my son about call up of soldiers in the UK which presumably would start with the territorial army - he is not in that. I wonder if they would cal up women as well as men to fight in from the UK in 2022 rather than just men for active fighting duty in 1939? In that case plenty of men might suddenly rather like the trans people as they could simply self declare and avoid active fighting unless it is doing to be based on if you have a p enis

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Apparently putin has cancer and parkinsons.

Where did you read that?

Taiwan defence ministry reporting that 9 Chinese Air Force planes entered its airspace today....

@Bunnyfuller

Racist slurs such as Astro-turfer (what does that mean) are offensive and misguided.

I am not Russian, I don’t sympathise with any country that bullies another. My post was trying to show where Putin’s head is at. I’m not saying it’s ok, but I think decisions around how to deal with the situation must look at why HE thinks he’s right. Nothing is ever resolved easily without trying to understand the other perspective, despite not agreeing with it.

In relation to the British govt, I did not vote for them, Boris Johnson is a venal, manipulative liar and the Tory party DO have close ties with Russia and it is widely known Putin DID do everything he could in pushing the pro-leave agenda. I also did note vote leave, I believe a united EU/Europe is the only way to hold stability against a threat as huge as the Russian military - only an EU army would have the united capability to counter it in fact.

Such abhorrent posts citing racist assumptions play into the hands to countries that say the UK is a racist, weak and arrogant country with delusions of Grandeur.

Astroturfer isn't a racist slur, the definition of astroturfing is this - the deceptive practice of presenting an orchestrated marketing or public relations campaign in the guise of unsolicited comments from members of the public. It's a well-known tactic used by Russia and would have taken you 30 seconds to Google before you started throwing around incorrect accusations.

@MarshaBradyo

I would say world wars start when nobody has anything the aggressor wants.

Can you say more on this - what do you mean wrt Putin

Ie what you think he wants that isn’t there

Simply what he wants he can just take, we’ve got nothing better/no credible threat to deter that he could be pacified with. He’s pushing the boundaries of what he believes NATO will become involved with but is prepared to rise against that if needed, it’s not the deterrent that’s needed to stop him re: Ukraine.

Putin has a large army and weapons store, he can afford to lose some to carry on his current course and still be in a ‘winning’ position. Basically he has a stronger stomach for loss of citizens than the west largely does at the moment.

If this drags out and he finds his resources depleted he may be more open to negotiate to save face or he might have one last ditch attempt to flip the bird at the world. Presuming things played out that way.

We are in the foothills of WW3 sadly which my grandparents had to suffer in WW1 and my parents in WW2 with a PM and a ruling party that has consorted with the enemy for years and led them to believe they could behave with impunity.

twitter.com/MarieAnnUK/status/1496784997847470082

@Xenia

I was just talking o my son about call up of soldiers in the UK which presumably would start with the territorial army - he is not in that. I wonder if they would cal up women as well as men to fight in from the UK in 2022 rather than just men for active fighting duty in 1939? In that case plenty of men might suddenly rather like the trans people as they could simply self declare and avoid active fighting unless it is doing to be based on if you have a p enis

Ffs Xenia, time and a place mate.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Apparently putin has cancer and parkinsons.

Where did you hear this