Do some people just lack the ability to be happy?

[Quitabix]

Like me.

I'm tired of trying to be happy. I've been trying to be happy for as long as I can remember. I'm definitely not depressed.

I know all the theory...practising gratitude, avoiding comparison, finding joy in the little things, finding your purpose etc etc...and I try and try, yet none of it ever works.

My life is just me constantly asking what the point of anything is, and darkly muttering...I didn't even ask to be born whenever something even vaguely inconveniences me.

I just think life is so so pointless and all these experiences we go through...so pointless.

This is me talking after protracted episodes of philosphising and therapy and research and medication...I absolutely know I am not depressed.

For me, it's a very rational conclusion that....life is pointless. I've accepted that life is pointless and try and just enjoy it for what it is, but I just don't think I have it in me to be happy.

Does anyone else relate?

Reading Derren Brown's book "happy" has had a massive positive change on my life.

Basically, "being happy" isn't a goal to achieve. You can feel happy as a result of things you do but it can't be an end state on its own.

Stoicism - yer actual Marcus Aurelius stoicism - has also helped me.

Plus I made the decision last year that I just didn't want to feel unhappy any more. I didn't want to carry on the constant inner dialogue that berated me for not doing enough/being enough or having enough despite not having any idea of what that would be. I decided to stop comparing myself to other people or having opinions on their lives if it had no effect on mine.

This came a few years after deciding not to care what other people thought about me. Or what I thought other people might think about me.

It was all mentally exhausting and ultimately making me unhappy. It was either stay like that or make the choice not to.

It can be hard but I am definitely more content overall and less negative. Happy happens but its not the be all and end all, contentedness and wellbeing is.

To add a what I think is a psychoanalytic view in the mix in case anyone finds it a useful way to think about things ....

I think when people talk about "happiness" really what they mean is being generally ordinarily content with life and thinking that life is worth living.

In order to have a life worth living you do have to be able to value what you have.

You can only really appreciate the value of things and by being able to mourn/grieve losses. I mean loss in the widest sense, from loss of eg a parent to "smaller" losses, eg loss of your little baby who has grown into a toddler, loss of the ability to party all night and then work all day in your 20s, loss of the chance to ever meet a new man and sleep with him now you are married etc etc.

When faced with losses it brings up painful feelings. When you feel those painful feelings you can either sit with them and allow yourself to grieve the loss, or you can try to escape them by being bitter or cynical or envious cross that others have more than you, or by being manically busy, or ruthlessly competitive and ambitious, or drinking or drug taking or sleeping around or whatever it is that we adopt as a way of not having to feel the pain of loss.

If we can allow ourselves to feel that pain though, ultimately we can work through the mourning of the loss, and emerge the other side with gratitude that what we had (and lost) was very good and we were lucky to have it, and that the experience of it remains a part of us going forwards in life, even if we no longer have it.

I think gratitude journals are on the right lines but I think there is more to it than trying to "force" yourself to feel gratitude. Real deeply felt gratitude comes out of really knowing the value of what you have lost - if anyone has experienced it you know that it is a powerful emotion, gratitude, that moves you to tears.

PS with gratitude to my psychoanalyst who has laboured for years to try to help me learn the above ...

@Lightning020

This is why I find daoism helpful. I listen on you tube talks about being like water. Going with the flow. A state of being not doing. Of course we all have things to do each day but it is about a state of fully being in the moment and not living in our head.

Personally I find it very helpful. Though it is very early days looking into it.

Happiness is not sustainable. Contentment is.

I think it helps to remember that Daoist / Buddhist / Hindu beliefs about being like ‘water’ or a ‘flame’ or ‘air’ were created at a time when lives were brutally short & where 70-90% of the babies born died before their 15th birthdays which is why the global population did not substantially increase until the health advances humanity made in the 20th century. But those who survived often lived to at least 65 and often with what would now be considered major disabilities / difficulties.

For example the ‘round roti’ test that Indian in laws give their newly married daughter in laws has it’s roots from when almost most girls (and a lot of boys) had some form of Polio or Measles / Viral related disability (as they were carers) - and so on the 2nd day of marriage the mil (who often had many dils and organised tasks) would gage how badly she was affected to organise who would do what. Cooking and serving were high status tasks left to girls who had minor disabilities while those who were majorly affected did either the low status hardcore manual tasks alongside the unmarried girls. This segregation affected your whole life & if you were deemed useless you had access to food / water & even your husband curtailed (he’d just marry someone else and the first wife would stay on as a servant / carer). It was a horrific brutal life and the only way for leaders and householders to keep the status quo and stop men and women from running awaybwas if they taught things like ‘think like water’ ‘focus on the moment’ ‘reincarnation’ etc.

@Pyewhacket

The Labour Party are institutionally miserable. They've spent years perfecting the science of gloom. If one of them ever came up with a positive thought the rest would froth at the mouth and fall over backwards demanding Thatcher be dug-up and put on trial.

Jeremy Corbyn kicked my cat and keeps ringing my doorbell at 3 in the morning. True story.

What an interesting thread. I'm content quite easily whereas my DH is so down and negative a lot of the time. We have a good life with a healthy child, beautiful home with half of the mmortgage already paid off, plenty of money for necessities and luxuries like holidays. I sometimes wonder if it's because my life used to be really hard so I might either be more resilient or am more mindful of what I have now? While his life was more straightforward so any setback feels bigger? Or it might be genetics, I don't know. Something to ponder about.

Thank you for this thread.

bedheadedzombie there could be something in that.

I have had many awful times from my teen years and on and off through my adult years...yet I have never forgotten the way I felt as an unburdened, carefree child and have fought [and studied and got help] to get that feeling back.

The negative person I know had a loving family and was adored [dare I say 'indulged'] throughout childhood and teen years. I've learnt to throw away bad stuff, distract. move on as I refuse to absorb anything which threatens who I am. I got sick of it.

'Negative person' grabs onto anything that isn't perfect or going her way and clings onto the unfairness of it all...going over and over it but not changing the way she views it [reframing] or cutting the source of the distress out. It's a victim mentality of someone who is used to others giving her what she wants and doesn't seem able to find it within herself. It's very sad.

@Unmumsymofo

If it makes you feel better, intelligence and depression are linked. A LOT of seemingly happy people are just thick tbh. (I said a lot not all before I get flamed lol). Honestly the state of the world it’s no wonder it’s a struggle to be happy sometimes. I can be happy in the moment but am often a bit flat, but i think that’s fairly normal and it’s a myth people are always happy. I agree purpose and fulfilment are more meaningful goals

I was thinking about intelligence and depression the other day. I know someone who seems relatively content with her life. If I had her life I would go mad . However she is only interested in her own immediate concerns , her family, having her basic needs met. She considers thinking about wider issues or seeking mental stimulation to be a pointless waste of time. An unexamined life is not worth living as far as I’m concerned. Too many things to think about can make you very unhappy however.

I think there's a lot to be said for if you expect to be unhappy then you will be. It will also cloud your memories of times you have been happy.

I know people who can have a wonderful day, but afterwards will just focus on what went wrong or what they didn't like (no matter how minor), and just ignore the good stuff. They're the ones who say they are incapable of being happy or content. And it's not that they are incapable but to change it would require sustained effort to change the lens they see the world through. And they'd need to be patient with themselves, start small and expect setbacks.

Somewhat counterintuitively, on days when I wake up feeling miserable, I am comforted by the thought of death. I have an absolute maximimum of 30 years to go; probably considerably less if genetics is any guide. At that point I will cease to exist along with any misery, stress and feelings of pointlessness I may feel. It will all definitely end one day, and a hundred years from now I will be lost to history. I do know it's really weird that this makes me think, "I might just as well get on and get busy in this moment right now."

@PupInAPram

Somewhat counterintuitively, on days when I wake up feeling miserable, I am comforted by the thought of death. I have an absolute maximimum of 30 years to go; probably considerably less if genetics is any guide. At that point I will cease to exist along with any misery, stress and feelings of pointlessness I may feel. It will all definitely end one day, and a hundred years from now I will be lost to history. I do know it's really weird that this makes me think, "I might just as well get on and get busy in this moment right now."

That’s fine if you aren’t leaving people who need yuh behind. Otherwise I wouldn’t care.

My sister is exactly like this. She exists in a little trench of doom.

I'm also increasingly aware that my best friend is like this. I'm trying to disengage as I find it so utterly draining.
I have a tendency to go through periods of feeling like this but am currently quite happy with my lot. Finding pleasure in the small things.
She absolutely sucks the joy out of life. Everything is a hassle, a drama and she's quite jealous of others-nitpicking at their holidays, exercise regime, everything......

My son is also not a "happy" child. Rarely enthusiastic. Rarely full of joy.

Maybe it's me as the common denominator 😂

Has anhedonia been mentioned? Charlie Brooker article here www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/sep/01/2

(NB humour may not be to everyone's taste...)

@OneSwallow a hundred years from now, the people you leave behind will also most likely be gone.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Has anhedonia been mentioned? Charlie Brooker article here www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/sep/01/2

(NB humour may not be to everyone's taste...)

Oh god that seems like the a sort of thing mopey goth teens* would write in an attempt to seem interesting and deep, and totally unlike boring normal people.

*I say this as a former mopey goth teen

"An unexamined life is not worth living as far as I'm concerned." @OneSwallow

But far better than having therapy and going over and over everything, in my opinion. When do you get to feel better? Nothing about the counselling I had made me feel better. I'd much rather not examine my life and just get on with living it. I have some happy moments, I have crap moments - that's life. A lot of life involves suffering. None of us asked for any of this! We just have to get on with it and make the best of it.

What an interesting thread. I'm happy most of the time (it's my natural personality) and often I'm so enthusiastic about things people think I'm being sarcastic. But I'm not content - there is a lot I want that I don't have.

@MedusasBadHairDay yep, it's not his best work 😬 some of his other writing is hilarious but that one's a bit OTT. Interestingly, I think he had a complete change of heart after having DC (so clearly an anhedonia lightweight).

I haven't read the thread and I'll go back but

I know all the theory...practising gratitude, avoiding comparison, finding joy in the little things, finding your purpose etc etc...and I try and try, yet none of it ever works.

This can be useful if it's useful, but it can also be a source of guilt and shame and completely counter productive when it isn't. It can be a form of spiritual bypassing without acknowledging that sometimes like just really is shit.

Sometimes a certain amount of wallowing and expressing the shitty stuff is necessary before any of that becomes helpful.

There's a woman round my way who always seems really happy. A friend who's a therapist says that if everyone was like her then she'd be out of a job. I think it's just the way some people are . I spoke to her once and she did seem to speak a weird load of gibberish.

I do relate to the person who said they had a lot of bullying early in life. My mother was very critical and negative (bullying really) and I think that has made me more of a glass half empty sort. I have an ongoing resolution to be more positive in the way I speak about things.

Also relate to the 'busyness' . I tend to try to do things most of the time, and mostly it works. Also living in the moment and trying to shrug things off quicker and not obsess over little things.

what the point of anything is

finding a purpose is definitely the key to contentment.

People can get thru hell if they they find a purpose.

I have one friend, I keep trying to inspire her to find a purpose, but the only purpose she can imagine being worthwhile is having a man in her life -- as long as no man, she can't be more than very transient happy. Everything makes her furious and sad.

I dunno... is she choosing or is she truly unable to choose otherwise, that her happiness depends on only one possible thing.

@ClariceQuiff

Yes, I'm rarely happy - when I am it's quite fleeting. I feel happy perhaps two or three times a year, for a few hours at most.

The rest of the time I feel anxious or depressed. My usual state is worrying about something and generally feeling uncomfortable. If I manage to stifle one worry, another one pops up, like whack-a-mole.

Yes - I think I have had chronic anxiety for years. Mostly related to money and not having enough of it which impacts on how stressed I get about my job (because I am terrified of doing something wrong and losing it.) I think if I had savings in the bank that I could live on for a bit I'd feel a lot less stressed about being out of work or unexpected high bills and might be able to feel happiness again. But for years now I've been too worried to really allow myself to feel anything because as soon as I look forward to something, the worries creep in. I laughed a few days ago and I realised I couldn't remember the last time I'd properly laughed. I do think I am a negative person though, I've been anxious since I was a child (and was diagnosed with OCD/intrusive thoughts which is difficult to combat.)

Anhedonia is the loss of pleasure of previous pleasurable activities, you can’t get a kind of, you either have it or not.
The op states that they have never had pleasurable activities so not likely to met this diagnostic criteria

It’s weird because I relate to yojr post a lot, but not for the same reasons
I had quite a horrible upbringing and am now really quite chirpy (I prob don’t seem like it on here ha ha!) I laugh loads; I make people laugh. I love summer and flowers and hugs and cosy blankets and blah blah
Have loads of friends

But there like an emptiness all of the time
It’s like being thirsty but no matter how much you drink you’re still thirsty?
I have also tho fight about the lottery dream. I don’t even care about winning it now, since I realised that I’d still feel the same just have millions more. Well ok, I’m still me tho aren’t I

Therapy never worked. Mostly because I objectively understand my situation, triggers, behaviours etc
But I’m still like… empty

It’s hard to explain
I am overall quite “happy”
I am happy on payday, I am happy when I see friends, I am happy when I am out and about and being useful etc etc

But there’s still an emptiness and I don’t think it’ll ever go away. Even with all the “self love blah blah blah” and “practice gratitude rah de rah”
And that makes me feel so utterly sad
I’m generally very positive about life. But you know, I just feel like, being satisfie and content etc is not meant for me
Like I own the house but never had a key to that room but I see everyone else go in and out of it with total ease
It’s very dejecting