DH considering becoming a doctor

[pinkgingham]

Posting here in case anyone has experience/advice they can share.

DH is 37 and in a fairly good career type role but it doesn't motivate him (it could uncharitably be called a bullshit job).

He wanted to study medicine at uni but instead did politics (got some dodgy career advice at school and was the first in his family to go uni).

He's wanted to retrain for many years but it didn't make sense whilst we were trying to buy a house, have kids etc.

He's now considering it properly for the first time. Unfortunately he has had to spend a lot of time in hospital recently due to serious illness in his family and it's really brought home to him that what the medical staff do is so meaningful, which is a direct contrast to his job (in his view).

We've worked out that we could afford to live on my salary for a few years if needed whilst he was studying, I appreciate that the hours are crazy and sometimes unpredictable and that it would put a lot more of the childcare burden on me. I still think it's worth it though as he has a lot of years left to work and you only get one life and it's a long time to waste in a job you think is meaningless. He would love to do it but is always more cautious than me.

Is this totally mad? Do people actually do this at 37? What do we need to consider?

With all that life experience he would probably make a great dr but ultimately deep in your hearts is it fair on your children ?

Would he consider nursing with a transition to being an ACP?

It's a shorter degree with less of a financial impact, it couldn't be more meaningful.

@Aishah231

If he did politics at uni it's unlikely he took the a levels needed to get into medical school. He'd need biology chemistry and maths - all at A. If he needs to do a levels my suggestion is he does those in his own time over a couple of years and if he passes well enough then consider it. If he has the right a levels then what about wiring 2-3 years until your children are older. This would mean childcare/managing the house etc was easier for you. I'd also insist he does his fair share still of the housework. Yes it'll be hard but he's not a young student he has responsibilities - you can't pay for it all and do it all. That will breed resentment.

I actually don't think a levels are accepted for graduate medicine? He needs to sit the GAMSAT instead I believe.

My friend made this mistake and wasted an entire year doing a levels for no reason

No as you say you only get one life. It would be too difficult may involve moving family around. Too much studying and postgraduate exams until your nearly 50! Do a allied profession instead. It may feel worthwhile but so are other jobs.

@cupolaoftea i was about to ask the OP whether her husband had seen “this is going to hurt”. The book’s also very good.

My partner is a doctor. I'll be honest - it's shit.

Maybe doesn’t want to do hospital medicine? There’s a much better and faster GP integrated training pathway now. Also some people happy to stay in middle grades and not become consultants. There are also a few notable shortage specialties.

But I still think it’s a tough training programme.

If he has a good job already, could he look to add something more meaningful in the form of volunteering? For example a lot of my friends are involved in animal rescue around their jobs in completely different fields, and it gives them a chance to do something they're really passionate about. It's still tough and they put in lots of hours for free but obviously doesn't involve the upheaval of retraining or moving around etc.

He could then use that experience to make a sideways move to a career that uses his current skills but in a different sector like charity, local council services or even the NHS as a manager.

Doctor here. Like my job for the most part, did it straight out of school so no help with regards to graduate medicine other than a lot of people on my course were mid 30s and had families, eldest was 45.
Things to consider I would say is what specialty does he wanna do, is it going to be 5 years medical school, 2 years Foundation, then 3 years to become GP or another 8 to become a surgeon?
Are you willing to move across the country for jobs every 3 years if you don't get a run through program where you are?
A few of my friends who are mature students find it disheartening to be mistaken for consultants because of their age when they're very junior, also find it difficult to leave a career where they are senior to being very junior for a long time.
Food for thought, medicine is fine, would I have been just as happy doing something else? Absolutely.

This comes up every so often with someone wanting to become a doctor in order to 'help people'. So why not become a nurse? The consultants I know spend around 6 hours a week in contact with patients (psychiatry), the rest is paperwork (important paperwork I know). Nurses are with patients all day and also have a say in care pathways. Yes we're talking £16 per hour not £50+ but if the motivation is helping people then that's the job which has the most direct impact on patients wellbeing.

Yes, he should follow his dream. Very do-able at 37. There are much older folks in med school.

I’ve been a nurse for 20 years. The F1 years are absolutely brutal. Long hours and shift work with no breaks. One of our Drs told me that when they worked out their hours, they would have got more for working at Tesco’s. It’s really a job for the young and very energetic. I’m 43 and feel too old to do regular nights. Registrars are paid better and are on a five year path to being a Consultant. But the exams they have to pass are insanely hard. All if your DHs peers will be a lot younger than him and I actually think that will be difficult. There are some great AHP jobs out there. I trained with some great ODPs (operating department practitioners) and radiographers etc, and the new physicians assistant job is developing all the time.

@feelingfree17

Yes, he should follow his dream. Very do-able at 37. There are much older folks in med school.

No one is suggesting it's not doable

This thread is about the potential impact on the OP and the children who already exist.

OP would essentially find themselves as a single parent who is also providing financial support for the absent parent

Such good advice about other potential roles within medicine. Start by reading 'This is going to hurt' and pay attention to the background noise. Never being able to commit to family life, the daily grind as well as the special events like birthdays , anniversaries, other peoples weddings.

Who would really chose a partner is is not around for any of that and is spending money in order to continue training etc

And all for what? The NHS is not a good employer. So many other opportunities for meaningful work not at the expense of OP

Good luck.

See threads over on student room about how hard it is to get into GEM courses. Very very competitive and you are competing with people who have very close to medicine degrees (biomed etc)

So he needs to firstly get the right a levels. Spend the next year studying for those (plus work) and see how he finds that.

I am doing a second degree and now masters. I do not have the stamina I had at 21. I could not work all night at the 24 hour exam stages. I can't sleep if I study past say 9. It's hard. I enjoy it but it doesn't matter if I give up or fail as I am doing it for interest only.

@Grumpyscot92 that’s my experience too. I have been in ward rounds where a relative has come up to the oldest (usually male) Dr thinking he is the most senior to ask a question, whereas the fresh faced 30 years old is the senior Registrar. It’s an uncomfortable situation and I’m sure it happens a lot.

ODPs - are they in all hospitals? I’ve never heard of that side of medicine before

Would be fancy occupational therapy, speech therapy, radiography, physio therapy, nursing or social work?

@CliffsofMohair I imagine all hospitals with theatres. This was at a small DGH so I imagine the big teaching hospitals have them too.

Way too old I’m afraid.
I’m a doctor, 37, started medicine at 18, finished training recently.
Uni isn’t hard thb, broad range but very little depth. Quite basic. But hanging around with people in their 20’s at a different stage of life will be tedious. Even GEM likely to be mid 20’s.
Foundation is sht. Lowest rung on every ladder. Nurses arnt nice, get dumped on by everyone. Basically a glorified secretary. Rotate wards frequently so no one invests any time in you. Will be with regular aged medical graduates so peers in their young/mid 20’s. He’s be 43ish by then so obviously looking older and everyone would mistake for the consultant, but experience level at FT1/2, so would constantly appear to fall below expectation. No normal person in their 40’s would enjoy taking all the sht as a foundation dr.

Some specialties there would be zero chance of getting in. Surgery- no way. Too old to learn the subtle dexterity required. Also even if FY1/2 in your home area, speciality may not be. Also specialties cover a huge region and hospitals in one region can cover quite a distance.

Being a trainee is really hard. Terrible hours, nights/weekends. Endless projects in your own time. Exams that suck the life out of you. No say in virtually any aspect of your job. Rotate so often that any issues you have are ignored as you’ll be going soon anyway. A 20 year old sucks this up as they don’t know any better but a 40 year old would struggle at being treated like an idiot for this long.

Every single medic I’ve seen who’s started after 30 goes into GP. I would say it’s about the only think a 40 year old foundation dr would get into.

None of this takes into account the financial aspect, which is considerable. Coming out with £40-50k debt from tuition fees alone for a job that doesn’t pay well for the few years is crazy.

Overall I think the uni years would be tedious, the first 5 years of hospital would would be sh*t, to ultimately be a GP at 47 or hospital consultant (unlikely) at nearly 60 absolutely is not worth it.

The romantic notion to “follow your dreams” is lovely but the reality of going into medicine at 37 would be totally bollo*ks.

I know two people who have just joined the ambulance service. Would that interest him? They’re short staffed and definitely make a difference and so far both the people I know are enjoying it.
One went to technician which involved a lot of on the job training, the othe took the degree route to paramedic.

the new physicians assistant job is developing all the time

Agreed. And with the new plans for the NHS and general upskilling to cope with the waiting lists, ODP, ACP, and PA are all good career paths for a number of AHPs.

Research Nurses and Clinical Nurse Specialists make a huge difference to people's clinical pathways and quality of life: both of those roles are excellent paths from nursing.

What about nursing OP would he be happy to do that?

I think you’d be mad to sign up for medicine, I hope it’s not true some of them work 90+ hour weeks because that’s inhumane.

I’m coming out of healthcare because it’s not rewarding, the patients rarely take the advice you offer, they talk to you like shit, I’ve been sexually assaulted, kept from leaving a clinic by a recently released prisoner who took pleasure in telling me no one knew I was in that room or would look for me at home time, physically assaulted, had my car vandalised because it was in the staff car park, been bullied by a manager, seen good members of staff harassed out of jobs because their ill and will need an early pension.

It’s not what he thinks.

I don’t think there’s negativity on this thread, so much as realism. It’s all very well having a dream and wanting to have a ‘meaningful career’ (whatever that means) but he has to be realistic about what that involves for him and the whole family.

37 isn’t old and it certainly isn’t old to retrain into a second career but unfortunately it may well be unrealistic if that second career is medicine and you have a young family. As others have said, the training is tough in terms of the length, the pace, the academic side and the shifts, not to mention the emotional side of it.

Has he got any work experience at all in hospitals, clinics or care homes? Or is this just a dream from observing doctors at work from the point of view of a hospital visitor?

@OversizedScrubs post really sums it up.

At least you are married so your DH can't be told he can't have the day off for his own wedding, despite givng HR over a year's notice of the date. Not a myth and practially a universal experience.

I used to run a very small unit and we would be sent every single junior doctor who was getting married as they knew we would not be gits about the rota, despite us having the least wiggle room for cover. I would personally cover all the shifts to allow people to have a honeymoon- not going to happen elsewhere, you are just a cog in a machine.

There are lots of ways to do things that are meaningful in this world. I'd suggest your DH explores his dissatisfaction with his job and whether he needs a job change or some other kind of engagement with meaning and community.

Might ne a bit obvious, but if his degree and work are politics related, could he not work for public health England (assuming you're in England)? I know someone who works for them in cyber security and she seems to like it. Loads of other meaningful civil service jobs he could do with a politics background