to ask what is the actual answer to good parenting?

[SillyBud]

Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done, seen umpteen threads where a poster comes on and gets roasted for shouting at her kids, seen a million threads where that after 15 let the kids do what they want as they will do it anyway...

And I just think am I alone in think mn have completely lost the plot and have become detached from reality in their approaches to parenting?

Shouting at your kids every now again is not going to cause some life long trauma, likewise I hear people say punishment/sanctions are wrong too so what is the solution?

You don't make threats you can't or won't follow through.

Parenting an older teen is more about mutual consent. Once they get to a certain age you can't 'stop' them doing certain things, you actually only have limited control, so you have to really pick your battles.

Also the view that kids after 15/16 should be able to do as they please as they are adults or will do it regardless to me is just bonkers.

Once they get to a certain age you can't 'stop' them doing certain things

can you give me examples and be specific please?

e.g. 17yo with part time job, so they have their own money. You can't 'stop' them buying drugs/cigarettes/alcohol and consuming them outside the home.

Well, you can, but the nuclear 'call the police' or 'throw out of the house' options may well be considered disproportionate.

So it needs to be more with agreement. I won't act as your taxi if ... kind of thing.

Personally, I think it's all about the basic strength of the relationship. Love, trust, respect and consideration on all sides. And really good communication.

If the relationship and communication is strong, managing behaviour flows naturally from that, without the need for punishments, sanctions etc. If any of those things aren't in place, then parents have to resort to other tactics.

But because parents are, like all human beings, flawed, ego driven and emotionally invested, it isn’t always successful

yet on mn there appears to be a roasting to parents who aren't up the status quo.

Especially hard for separated parents where the teen can strop off to the other parent, or if teen has a girl/boyfriend whose parents will let them stay.

If the relationship and communication is strong, managing behaviour flows naturally from that, without the need for punishments, sanctions etc. If any of those things aren't in place, then parents have to resort to other tactics

sounds like the behaviour mgmt advice we get told in schools by slt and the 'professionals', incidentally the experts and slt left the classroom themselves or have no experience of it...

Different parenting methods have different approaches. Gentle parenting is about talking it through and natural consequences so you hit your sister then you are going to feel guilty or you have been drawing on the walls means you can’t have pens unsupervised. The aim is to create children/adults who can regulate their own behaviour. Shouting at children is generally seen as a thing to avoid but gentle parenting acknowledges that no one can be perfect and it’s not good to aim for.

There is no one definition of good parenting. There is a minimum level of acceptable parenting but beyond that parenting is very individual.

@SillyBud

If the relationship and communication is strong, managing behaviour flows naturally from that, without the need for punishments, sanctions etc. If any of those things aren't in place, then parents have to resort to other tactics

sounds like the behaviour mgmt advice we get told in schools by slt and the 'professionals', incidentally the experts and slt left the classroom themselves or have no experience of it...

I'm not an expert, I'm just talking from my own personal experience and from what I have observed in countless other families.

To answer the thread title:
Example. Example. Example.

Children do what you do, not what you say. And you have no credibility at all with teens if you don't walk the walk.

Children are watching us all of the time!

Also, because teens are different, methods have more/less effectiveness with different children. You have to parent the teen in front of you and just do the best you can.

My son is a good kid, at nearly 18 I'm very proud of the young man he has grown into. But we have had many challenges.

Once he was bigger and taller than me there were many things I could't have stopped him doing - leaving the house, eating rubbish at school for starters.
I never had any trouble with him going to school - he always loved going, being with his friends and learning. But I could never make him do homework. So I stopped trying. I worked with the school, he did homework in school but never any extra. If he had refused school I could never have made him.
As I say my son is a good kid, but as they get more independent, go out on their own with their friends, its very difficult to stop them doing things you might disapprove of.

I think the difficulty with that advice being given by professionals is that, by the time things have got to that stage, things have already gone wrong. You are not starting from a blank slate. The building blocks are put in place when children are very young. It is much more difficult to repair things later when they have gone wrong.

I think it's all about the basic strength of the relationship. Love, trust, respect and consideration on all sides. And really good communication

ime this can be a euphemism for turning a blind eye. I see it in the classroom alot.

My son is fifteen with a part time job and money of his own. Thankfully he is ama
zingly well behaved (prefers outdoorsy type activities like hiking etc) but I have to trust that he is doing what he says he's doing on sleepovers etc....do I follow him all night? Some parents are ridiculously controlling (mine for example expected me to be tucked up in bed at home by 9pm on a Saturday night when I was sixteen!)
At sixteen/seventeen trying to control their every move will end in disaster (shockingly I'm nc with my parents for many reasons but their bizarre attitude to me as a teenager is part of it). As long as they have been brought up sensibly and you have given them a decent upbringing you have to ley them go and make their own choices at some point (mine decided on the day of my 18th birthday that I was pretty much on my own after a very sheltered upbringing, you can guess how that went).

@TeenPlusCat I think maybe what @SillyBud is alluding to, is ending up in a situation with that dynamic where things are up for ‘discussion’.

For example, by the time i was 17 with a part time job, there is no way I would have dared disobey my parents as they had always been strict. I never dreamed of doing drugs because I knew it was ‘bad’, was a road to ‘failure’ and they’d kill me. They’d raised me to think drugs were what ‘losers’ did. So they never had to discuss that with me as they had put in the ground work so it was never a possibility.

I think the difficulty with that advice being given by professionals is that, by the time things have got to that stage, things have already gone wrong

I think the problem too given by the pros is they often have no experience of it but rather have a fancy phd or degree and just know the theory. So for example in teacher training both my teaching mentors who observed me from university had never worked in a school and were giving me tips on how to manage behaviour etc during lesson observations.
So they would say 'have a quiet word', yes this works in a class of 5 but in a class of 30 what about all the chimps at the tea party?

@SillyBud

I think it's all about the basic strength of the relationship. Love, trust, respect and consideration on all sides. And really good communication

ime this can be a euphemism for turning a blind eye. I see it in the classroom alot.

Not sure what you mean by turning a blind eye. How would having a strong relationship with your child equate to that?

I assume that you prefer a more controlling approach with lots of punishments and sanctions. Fair enough, you parent as you think fit. I'll carry on doing it my way, because I know it works for us.

@SillyBud

I think the difficulty with that advice being given by professionals is that, by the time things have got to that stage, things have already gone wrong

I think the problem too given by the pros is they often have no experience of it but rather have a fancy phd or degree and just know the theory. So for example in teacher training both my teaching mentors who observed me from university had never worked in a school and were giving me tips on how to manage behaviour etc during lesson observations.
So they would say 'have a quiet word', yes this works in a class of 5 but in a class of 30 what about all the chimps at the tea party?

So is this basically about the fact that you struggle to manage behaviour in the classroom?

I get how tough it is for newly qualified teachers. I'm sure that it can be immensely challenging, but I also remember from my own school days that kids behaved best for the teachers that they liked and respected. Not the ones who were ultra strict.

Shouting at your children and threatening silly things is completely ineffectual.
What does it teach them?
To shout back and that they can actually do exactly as they wish, as Santa still comes, the policemen isnt actually going to take them away.
Guide them firmly, have a few strict but fair rules and model them yourself.
After the age of about 6 my DC knew exactly how to behave, the odd reminder here and there but the work had already been put in place.
If I had to shout at or threaten my DC I would feel I had failed as a parent.
Im no pushover at all btw.
Its not wet lettuce vs shouting -theres firm but fair parenting in between.

but I have to trust that he is doing what he says he's doing on sleepovers etc....do I follow him all night?

yes but at 15 I'd want to know who the parents were and confirm with them before if it was ok he/she was staying over. If I didn't know them I wouldn't allow it-ofcouse somebody will come along soon and tell me at 15 they can do what they want and this is part I have issue with as that to me is a failure in parenting and not raising your voice at a child every now and again as stated on mn.

[quote Scrunchies]**@TeenPlusCat* I think maybe what @SillyBud* is alluding to, is ending up in a situation with that dynamic where things are up for ‘discussion’.

For example, by the time i was 17 with a part time job, there is no way I would have dared disobey my parents as they had always been strict. I never dreamed of doing drugs because I knew it was ‘bad’, was a road to ‘failure’ and they’d kill me. They’d raised me to think drugs were what ‘losers’ did. So they never had to discuss that with me as they had put in the ground work so it was never a possibility.[/quote]
I don't see a problem with things being "up for discussion". I am quite happy to discuss stuff with my dd. If she puts forward a valid argument about something, I might well change my mind. If I am not convinced, she will respect my decision. It's about being reasonable on both sides, I think.

I do think the example you set cannot be over rated - the values you live by will permeate every moment of their lives from the day they are born.

I have 2 wonderful adult children. The oldest was naturally compliant so if our only child we would have been the ultimate smug parents. Thankfully the youngest came along to keep us humble . She may have been more of a natural rebel but when kindness, consideration and treating people decently are innate then it is just part of the bumpy road to independent adulthood. I remember her guidance teacher phoning because she was dodging an unimportant class she just had to do to fill up a column. I said I knew but couldn’t maker her go, she was focusing on the classes she needed to get into Uni. I said the guidance teacher was welcome to try, but she agreed with me - pick your battles. My little tearaway now has a very responsible and successful career and we have a great relationship. Some fights aren’t worth having.