to ask what is the actual answer to good parenting?

[SillyBud]

Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done, seen umpteen threads where a poster comes on and gets roasted for shouting at her kids, seen a million threads where that after 15 let the kids do what they want as they will do it anyway...

And I just think am I alone in think mn have completely lost the plot and have become detached from reality in their approaches to parenting?

Shouting at your kids every now again is not going to cause some life long trauma, likewise I hear people say punishment/sanctions are wrong too so what is the solution?

*So is this basically about the fact that you struggle to manage behaviour in the classroom?

I get how tough it is for newly qualified teachers. I'm sure that it can be immensely challenging, but I also remember from my own school days that kids behaved best for the teachers that they liked and respected. Not the ones who were ultra strict*

not at all, I was giving an example of the gurus who preach how to manage children both in the classroom and at home and I was simply questioning their authority on the topic. In my example they had no experience themselves and were telling others how to do it.

Always make yourselves approachable and don't be too strict that way if they do get into trouble or have difficulties when they are older they are able to talk to you about it rather than be so scared of your reaction that they just daren't.

@StEval

Shouting at your children and threatening silly things is completely ineffectual. What does it teach them? To shout back and that they can actually do exactly as they wish, as Santa still comes, the policemen isnt actually going to take them away. Guide them firmly, have a few strict but fair rules and model them yourself. After the age of about 6 my DC knew exactly how to behave, the odd reminder here and there but the work had already been put in place. If I had to shout at or threaten my DC I would feel I had failed as a parent. Im no pushover at all btw. Its not wet lettuce vs shouting -theres firm but fair parenting in between.

I agree with this, and also, support your child's school. There are too many posts about 'going in there all guns blazing.' Schools don't always get everything right, and I would advocate talking to the teacher if something is blatantly wrong, but not about 'unfair detention' or 'the teacher made my child uncomfortable.' Parental support seems to be a thing of the past.

"Children don' t do as you say, they do as you do." So if you are angry and shouty your kids will be also. Calmness is key, it teaches them to listen and communicate, to stay in control of their emotions.
Its all well and good sitting smugly on your high perch judging other parents when your own kids are behaving, but things can and do change very quickly, when things go wrong they can go wrong big time, esp with teens, then you have to think fast on your feet and make decisions you' ve never had to make before.
Also some kids do have more challenging tempremants than others so you have to work with what you' ve got, l have two sons and have had to parent them differently as what works with one, doesn' t for the other.

Not all children are people pleasers, many can be very assertive which serves them well in later life but makes it alot more challenging to parent.
Parenting is really hard work, we are all just trying to get from A to B as smoothly as possib!e.

@AlexaShutUp i don’t think the “big things” (drugs, attending school etc) should be up for discussion. As teenagers they don’t have the level of understanding, maturity or critical thinking to fully comprehend the consequences their current opinions might have. That’s what our job as parents is for. What if you discuss it, she still doesn’t agree and ignores you?

Small things then yes of course it’s good to have that relationship. But no, I don’t think at that age they should have an equal opinion about things that could ruin their future. Isn’t that what parents are for?

I might well change my mind. If I am not convinced, she will respect my decision. It's about being reasonable on both sides, I think

yes but on mn we are often told to let teens do what they want as we can't stop them.So the kid is not learning boundaries or respecting decisions then. Likewise, often 'being reasonable on both sides' can be elusive considering that often kids don't have the maturity to see your perspective.

Having a good relationship and being a parent doesn’t necessarily stop an older child misbehaving or going off the rails because there are a huge amount of outside influences on children and even more so teenagers. I think anyone who is smug enough to believe that their child has been primed against anything bad happening is sadly mistaken. It is obviously a much better base to start from though.
I would agree a lot is lead by example. And be respectful and kind. And realise that different personalities need different approaches. That includes at school. I’m shocked to hear of teachers using their mobile in lesson time, and of kids getting detentions for single incidences of very minor errors like forgetting a piece of equipment. Whilst major problems like bullying, carrying weapons, being very destructive go unpunished.

Having a good relationship and being a parent doesn’t necessarily stop an older child misbehaving or going off the rails because there are a huge amount of outside influences on children and even more so teenagers

this, to define a ''good relationship'' is hard as ime it can mean kids does what he/she wants and gives mum/dad no aggro as long as this status quo is followed. This um is not a good relationship. They are our kids, not our friends and often when parents try to enforce discipline it's called ''a bad relationship.''

This happens in the classroom too.

[quote Scrunchies]@AlexaShutUp i don’t think the “big things” (drugs, attending school etc) should be up for discussion. As teenagers they don’t have the level of understanding, maturity or critical thinking to fully comprehend the consequences their current opinions might have. That’s what our job as parents is for. What if you discuss it, she still doesn’t agree and ignores you?

Small things then yes of course it’s good to have that relationship. But no, I don’t think at that age they should have an equal opinion about things that could ruin their future. Isn’t that what parents are for?[/quote]
I think anything is up for discussion tbh. That doesn't mean that it's up for a democratic vote, simply that there are no taboo subjects and that dd is free to express her views on any subject. DD understands that my role as a parent is to keep her safe, so if my decision is still no after we have discussed something, then she will respect and accept that because she understands that I am on her side and acting in her best interests. The problem arises when the child sees the parents' decisions as arbitrary, illogical and unreasonable - typically as a result of the "because I said so" style of parenting that shuts down discussion and debate.

If you have a really strong relationship and good communication from the early years, it's far less likely that you'll come to blows over stuff like drugs or school attendance in any case tbh, because the kids learn to make sensible decisions for themselves.

Relationships are about the way people interact with each other so If someone is doing whatever they want so that others don’t have to interact with them I don’t think that can be defined as a ‘good relationship’, it’s very little relationship at all really.
It all comes down to modelling the beviour you want to see and setting out what hard limits there are and what is negotiable, what they can freely choose for themselves. Too much or too little control is not a good thing.

@AlexaShutUp fair enough, that’s a good point and you explained it well. I only have a toddler so no experience of parenting teens. My own parents were incredibly strict so it’s interesting to read other opinions. You sound like you have a good relationship with your DD.

I think there is a lot of truth in the saying 'show me a boy at 7 and I'll show you the man.' They need to now you are in control (it makes them feel safe) and respect you when they are little as this then continues into the teenage years. By control I don't mean authoritarian do as I say, they mirror your behaviour and so you should show kindness, compassion and aways listen to them (even when they are boring your socks off rambling about pokemon😳) and be reasonable. Definitely pick your battles!

Silly Are you a parent, if so what age are your DC? how long have you been teaching?

It reads as if you are saying that if only parents were more strict at home then their teens would never misbehave at school, nor wander off the rails when older.

Teens are the product of their parenting, genes, experiences, interactions with peers, interactions with teachers, etc. It's complex.

Colleges telling just turned 16 year olds with dyspraxia that they are 'adults' doesn't help either...

so if my decision is still no after we have discussed something, then she will respect and accept that because she understands that I am on her side and acting in her best interests. The problem arises when the child sees the parents' decisions as arbitrary, illogical and unreasonable - typically as a result of the "because I said so" style of parenting that shuts down discussion and debate

in an ideal world perhaps but even with the best discussions kids will often still not see your view on things. To think all kids will simply know you are working in their best interests simply because you discussed it is detached from reality. Their peers often are much more influential than you.

[quote Scrunchies]@AlexaShutUp fair enough, that’s a good point and you explained it well. I only have a toddler so no experience of parenting teens. My own parents were incredibly strict so it’s interesting to read other opinions. You sound like you have a good relationship with your DD.[/quote]
I do indeed! I was lucky enough to have a good model of parenting from my own mum and dad. They were great parents - very fair, very kind and very reasonable. Interested and supportive but never controlling. Always treated us with respect and consideration. As a result, dsis and I trusted their decisions. We never felt the need to rebel and we never wanted to let them down.

*Are you a parent, if so what age are your DC? how long have you been teaching?

It reads as if you are saying that if only parents were more strict at home then their teens would never misbehave at school, nor wander off the rails when older*

I am teaching 8 years, I have no kids but no I am not saying it's up to the parents.
I am questioning what is the ideal way to parent as so many of these threads appear on mn and posters get roasted for doing x,y and z so my question is what makes everybody on here such an expert?

I am basing my own views on my own upbringing and what I see in schools.

Look up PACE - Dan Huges, it’s designed for kids with trauma but works for all kids. But needs to be done within the environment where there is consistency, predictability and clear boundaries.

Shouting and punishment does not bring about long term change for serious behavioural difficulties. If it did we would not have any kids with behaviour problems. But we do, so this suggests it doesn’t work. You can argue back it works for the majority, but those for which it ‘works’ have the secure foundations that allows them to make mistakes and then regulate their behaviour. To be able to do this is as the result of complex early life experiences.

@SillyBud

so if my decision is still no after we have discussed something, then she will respect and accept that because she understands that I am on her side and acting in her best interests. The problem arises when the child sees the parents' decisions as arbitrary, illogical and unreasonable - typically as a result of the "because I said so" style of parenting that shuts down discussion and debate

in an ideal world perhaps but even with the best discussions kids will often still not see your view on things. To think all kids will simply know you are working in their best interests simply because you discussed it is detached from reality. Their peers often are much more influential than you.

Again, I think it depends on the strength of the relationship and the discussions that you have with them from a young age which help to shape their understanding. I remember being around peers doing stupid things when I was younger, and yes, sometimes there was pressure to join in, but I didn't because I knew that my mum and dad were right.

I don’t know anyone who feels better after shouting at their kids, who walks away thinking ‘yay I did some good parenting there’, they walk away feeling shit, a failure and miserable.

But yet we still shout at kids.

Shouting and punishment does not bring about long term change for serious behavioural difficulties. If it did we would not have any kids with behaviour problems. But we do, so this suggests it doesn’t work

but if there is no punishment/sanction what is the alternative that is guaranteed to work? Society is built around sanctions in order for it to work. People stay in line as they don't want to go to jail/get a fine/get arrested...

I imagine that, if you taught my dd, you might jump to conclusions about how she is parented that would be far from accurate. She always behaved impeccably in school, but it was not the result of harsh, overly controlling parenting.

It changes so much over time really. I'm at the mid point with 11&12yo DDs. The teen years (and perimenopause fast heading my way) are to come 🙈.

One of my children is much more challenging behaviour wise and always has been- so far for me only and is fine at school. She's incredibly stubborn. If she doesn't want to do something it won't happen. She can also speak very rudely. Now I understand why my mum would pull me up on tone of voice!

I had to draw my line in the sand the other night after she had been repeatedly very rude to me.
The only thing that works with her is speaking extremely calmly and giving her time to calm down and reflect away from everyone. And making up.
In fact the other night was somewhat of a break through. I was too tired to be angry, but it was a battle I had to pick.
It's the exact technique I used when she was a toddler though. Shouting, 'carrot and stick' don't work.

I am human though and have certainly shouted occasionally in frustration and anger. And certainly everyone I know in the real world has too.

I'm with @AlexaShutUp and this is exactly how I try and parent. I do have some red lines (harming self / hurting others). Everything else is for discussion and respectful debate. I try and listen, empathise, parent by consent etc.

So, OP, I am definitely a MN who you would feel has lost the plot! But in my defence all is going great with DD so far.

Maybe a different child or multiple children would need a different approach.

I remember being around peers doing stupid things when I was younger, and yes, sometimes there was pressure to join in, but I didn't because I knew that my mum and dad were right

but that's you, many other kids, I'd say a majority, wouldn't have this mindset to be so obliging to their parents 24/7.