to ask what is the actual answer to good parenting?

[SillyBud]

Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done, seen umpteen threads where a poster comes on and gets roasted for shouting at her kids, seen a million threads where that after 15 let the kids do what they want as they will do it anyway...

And I just think am I alone in think mn have completely lost the plot and have become detached from reality in their approaches to parenting?

Shouting at your kids every now again is not going to cause some life long trauma, likewise I hear people say punishment/sanctions are wrong too so what is the solution?

@SillyBud

If you let us know which threads perhaps it would make more sense

eugh i hate when people on mn do this-challenge the poster to prove it, there have being threads and I am not going looking for them.

Your initial thread began Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done,

You don’t know what thread that was? You’ve said that people have x opinion but can’t provide any evidence of that so how can people comment? That view isn’t being expressed here or on other threads I’ve seen. Was it really the majority opinion?

you have to earn their respect first

Nah we should respect everybody, it's never something we have to 'earn'-such bullshit.

3. Respect comes from consistent boundaries. Respond in the same way every time and everyone knows where they stand.

Again no respect should come naturally-we should give everybody respect unless they do something awful to us.

5. Be clear on consequences every single time. If you choose to do this, the consequence will be this. And follow through every. Single. Time.

And in schools today some slt don't like consequences and tell teachers not to use them. They say it's about creating engaging lessons and building relationships. So then what do you [a seemingly expert} suggest?

Your initial thread began
Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done

the thread was about how a poster said her parents threatened to send her to the naughty house as many posters said they shouldn't do this as it was something awful.

As a teacher, there are a few tenets of behaviour management that you must already be aware of, unless you really struggle with behaviour in your class

and no i don't struggle with behaviour mgmt but I suspect a big reason so many people leave the profession in England these days are because of the public attitudes like yours in that if you do x.y and z it will be fine when in reality it's not.

[quote Scrunchies]**@AlexaShutUp* and @dressicarabbit* any advice for those with toddlers? I often feel like I’m not sure I’m doing the right thing.[/quote]
It's hard to advise others @Scrunchies. We are all different as parents and our kids are different too. I don't think I have all of the answers by any means, but I do have opinions about what is important.

All I would say is to really invest in your relationship with your child as that is what will get you through the teenage years unscathed. If you give them lots and lots of truly unconditional love, as well as time and attention, that really will go a very long way.

Also, treat your child with respect. They might be small but they are still a person and their feelings and opinions matter. Explain your decisions but really listen to what they say too. Let them make their own choices wherever you can. Tell them that you're sorry when you get stuff wrong.

Avoid power struggles wherever you can. Explain and persuade instead of forcing them to do stuff, because there will come a time when they resist being forced. Let them "win" sometimes. It's important for them to feel that they have agency. Take a genuine interest in what interests them (it gets more interesting as they get older!).

I never bothered with time outs or punishments etc. If dd did something wrong, I explained why I was unhappy with her behaviour and pointed towards any natural consequences but I didn't impose extra sanctions. I didn't reward good behaviour either fwiw, but I did often comment on positive behaviour.

And as your dc gets older, talk talk talk. Find out what's going on in their world and share what's going on in yours. That's how values are transmitted and shared, and it helps to build mutual respect and understanding.

I am no perfect parent by any means, and I was always clear with dd that I get stuff wrong sometimes. I talked about my own flaws and faults and mistakes. She said to me a while ago that she thinks this helped her to transition into the teenage years because there was never a pedestal to knock me off, whereas many of her friends were incredibly disappointed when it dawned on them that their parents were actually just flawed human beings like everyone else. I thought that was quite interesting!

I presume this is the thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4472876-To-think-what-my-parents-did-was-abusive

And nobody on the first page has said it’s awful, in the majority of comments she’s told not to be silly and everyone has disagreed it’s abuse? I can’t be bothered to read the 15 pages of comments, I’m sure some have a different opinion, but was it the majority or a small minority?

And nobody on the first page has said it’s awful, in the majority of comments she’s told not to be silly and everyone has disagreed it’s abuse

some said it was abuse if you rtft but it was more that many said it was outdated parenting and nobody would dare do it now as if it was really bad.

@SillyBud I didn’t say no sanctions.

Shouting at a child is not a sanction it is a sign the adult is no longer in control.

Sanctions/consequences absolutely are part of parenting.

Sanctions/consequences absolutely are part of parenting

but on mn and on this thread we are told we should never use sanctions.

@SillyBud I note you’ve not responded to my suggestion for reading about how to approach parenting.

Are you just wanting confirmation of your approach in the classroom?

Louise Bombers books might be of interest to you.

@SillyBud

And I think there is something wrong with a relationship where children never defy their parents, rebellion is an important part of growing up

this- I still kind of think the poster who says this was like it for her is being tongue in cheek

No, I wasn't being tongue in cheek at all. I didn't "rebel". Lots of people don't, you know. Can you tell me what I missed out on a result of skipping this apparently important part of growing up? What is the negative impact of having missed this stage, do you think?

The notion of teenage rebellion is widespread in our culture, but it isn't necessarily the same in all cultures. I lived abroad for years and it wasn't taken for granted at all that kids would defy their parents.

What’s your actual gripe, that there’s no one unified way of parenting? I thought that was obvious.

Obviously there are a lot of divisive opinions on how you should and shouldn’t parent and some things are largely more and largely less popular.

I think shouting at your kids occasionally is probably not the worst thing in the world but it’s certainly not what we should be aiming for, right?

At the end of the day kids are just people with less life experience than most, so there’s no one way of doing things.

*I note you’ve not responded to my suggestion for reading about how to approach parenting.

Are you just wanting confirmation of your approach in the classroom*

this thread is not about my approach though, it's about how everybody here claims to be an expert and batters the person who shouts now and again at their kid

@SillyBud Depends what is meant by consequences.

So I would favour natural consequences.

For example.
Kid ‘can I go out with my friend at 2pm’
Parent ‘yes if you’ve done your maths homework’

2pm comes along.

Kid: can I go out?
Parent: have you done your homework?
Kid: No
Parent: then no, you knew the deal and I’m sorry this is hard but you’ve got to do your homework.

I think shouting at your kids occasionally is probably not the worst thing in the world but it’s certainly not what we should be aiming for, right

yea but again on mn people act like it's the worst thing ever.

@SillyBud

Do you think shouting at a child is effective?

I don’t judge anyone for shouting at their kids. Parenting is bloody hard.

@SillyBud but if we want healthy kids to turn into healthy adults we need to face the fact that some parenting approaches are not effective.

I already said I couldn’t be bothered to read the entire thread but that nobody expressed on the first page what you have put in your initial post. So a small minority said that was abuse? And you’ve extrapolated to ‘but on mn and on this thread we are told we should never use sanctions.’
Who has said no sanctions should ever be used? I don’t see any answers saying that. If you say something to kids in a classroom without being able to back it up they will see through it.

I would add that I have shouted at my child sometimes. Never as a deliberate strategy for managing behaviour, but rather when I have been stressed about other stuff and unable to control my own reactions. I am not proud of having shouted at dd, but I also don't believe that it has damaged her in any way. I have always apologised and made it clear that I shouldn't have done it. She knows that I'm human and therefore fallible. It isn't a big deal.

@SillyBud

Do they? I see people saying that the parent who shout shouldn’t have done that, but usually even the parent would agree with that.

Also, it’s the internet. Everyone exaggerates and over reacts. 🤷‍♀️

Well the real answer is that "good parenting" has as many variations as there are parents. As long as you're not abusing (overusing fear) or neglecting (ignoring/including no boundaries at all) and your child doesn't have specific needs meaning they need specialised parenting (e.g. SEN or developmental issues) it doesn't really matter, children will generally be fine and there's not much sense arguing about the details.

I think the problem is that someone has their own parenting style, learned or cobbled together or whatever and they then place loads of importance on that being the "best" and then they feel the need to go and educate everyone else about it which doesn't really make sense. Or OTOH there is a discussion thread and someone mistakes person A talking about what they would do in parenting for person A "telling everyone else what to do" when maybe they weren't doing that at all. Different things are likely to work for different parents (and children).

I could tell you about parenting without sanctions/punishments but I know it's not for everyone, and the vast majority of children will be absolutely fine raised using a different parenting method.

I think with shouting, it's difficult because people have a different baseline. If you grew up in a very shouty home or have shouting arguments with your DH all the time then it probably seems madness to object to shouting whereas if you live in a very calm house where nobody ever raises their voice, the thought of shouting is quite chaotic and even frightening.

I think it's quite interesting/useful to have different baselines to think about these things from.

Also, there are different definitions and types of shouting. I have occasionally had a situation (and I can't think of anything specific) where I've gone in and spoken to DC with a raised/stern voice and have felt even in hindsight that that was OK and the correct response for the situation. I would probably call that shouting. Whereas more commonly, I've become overwhelmed and shouted "STOP WHINING!" (or fighting or throwing things or leave me alone or whatever) and I know that was not a helpful response, did absolutely nothing to stop the behaviour, and just made me more cross and the DC more wild.

Both shouting, one helpful (and maybe could have been replaced with another strategy? But you know what I think it was fine) and one unhelpful, and should definitely have been dealt with better.

OTOH there is another kind of shouting which is supposed to be loud and threatening and implicit of violence, even if the shouter has no intention of hurting the child physically. (Although often also used when they do). I don't like that kind, it is usually done by men although not exclusively, that kind of shouting, berating and terrifying, is abusive IMO. I don't think anyone should be using fear to discipline, it's just completely unnecessary these days and living in a near-constant state of fear causes trauma.

Parenting is an entirely different job to teaching (and the crowd control role that comes with teaching). A zero-tolerance, punitive approach may be justified in schools but should never be mirrored in the home.

It's not necessarily a mark of successful parenting to have a child that never causes trouble at school. Schools by and large value certain types of behaviour and attributes... academic ability, obedience and deference to authority, eagerness to please, ability to conform to various 'petty' rules, ability to sit quietly and concentrate for long periods. Many children who struggle with these things and for whom school is therefore difficult will go on to thrive at the next stage of their lives - whether that's work or further education. And the reason many will do this is because they have parents behind the scenes who have gently and supportively acknowledged the problems they have with school, encouraged them to try their best and helped them work out where their strengths lie if not in school.

Parenting isn't just about producing compliant young people who will go through our 'factory' school system without causing any trouble for their teachers.

@dressicarabbit

Hi *@Scrunchies* read Philippa Perry book - the book you wished your parents had read. It's all in there.

Excellent book.