to ask what is the actual answer to good parenting?

[SillyBud]

Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done, seen umpteen threads where a poster comes on and gets roasted for shouting at her kids, seen a million threads where that after 15 let the kids do what they want as they will do it anyway...

And I just think am I alone in think mn have completely lost the plot and have become detached from reality in their approaches to parenting?

Shouting at your kids every now again is not going to cause some life long trauma, likewise I hear people say punishment/sanctions are wrong too so what is the solution?

@SillyBud

Shouting and punishment does not bring about long term change for serious behavioural difficulties. If it did we would not have any kids with behaviour problems. But we do, so this suggests it doesn’t work

but if there is no punishment/sanction what is the alternative that is guaranteed to work? Society is built around sanctions in order for it to work. People stay in line as they don't want to go to jail/get a fine/get arrested...

Not true for the vast majority of people.

Most people do the right thing because they want to do the right thing. If I knew that I couldn't be arrested and put in jail, I wouldn't go out and kill people, steal things etc. The threat of sanctions isn't what stops me from breaking the law. It is my own innate sense of right and wrong.

I would add that the threat of sanctions clearly doesn't stop many people from offending either.

@SillyBud

I remember being around peers doing stupid things when I was younger, and yes, sometimes there was pressure to join in, but I didn't because I knew that my mum and dad were right

but that's you, many other kids, I'd say a majority, wouldn't have this mindset to be so obliging to their parents 24/7.

No, because most of them didn't have the same quality of relationship in the first place.

I am human though and have certainly shouted occasionally in frustration and anger. And certainly everyone I know in the real world has too

exactly but on mn we are full of posters who swear they'd never do this and crucify those who admit to having done it. That's my issue.

@SillyBud

Shouting and punishment does not bring about long term change for serious behavioural difficulties. If it did we would not have any kids with behaviour problems. But we do, so this suggests it doesn’t work

but if there is no punishment/sanction what is the alternative that is guaranteed to work? Society is built around sanctions in order for it to work. People stay in line as they don't want to go to jail/get a fine/get arrested...

I don't behave well because I'm scared of fine, prison etc. I do it because it feels right. Equally I behaved well as a child because I wanted to make my parents proud. I wasn't scared of them or my teachers.

No, because most of them didn't have the same quality of relationship in the first place

ok so you were miss goody 2 shoes 24/7 and never once defied your parents ever? My god- can you write the best seller to end the bad behaviour?

I don't behave well because I'm scared of fine, prison etc

yea but many others would. What is your solution then?

Children should have consequences but they don't have to be shouting/hitting, losing your temper with a child shows lack of control which is not a good example to set. (Although it happens to the best of us sometimes!!) it's also about managing your child's environment and not giving them more than they are capable of dealing with. Older children is more about negotiation and discussion and also accepting they can have different opinions from you and picking your battles.

@AlexaShutUp and @dressicarabbit any advice for those with toddlers? I often feel like I’m not sure I’m doing the right thing.

@SillyBud

No, because most of them didn't have the same quality of relationship in the first place

ok so you were miss goody 2 shoes 24/7 and never once defied your parents ever? My god- can you write the best seller to end the bad behaviour?

I'm sure I must have done stuff occasionally. I certainly wasn't perfect. But can I ever remember defying my parents? Honestly, I cannot. I don't think my sister ever did either. There just wasn't any need. I'm sorry if that annoys you.

I think some kids will always be more challenging than others, and kids with certain SEN etc might need different strategies, but honestly, I do think poor parenting is at the root of a lot of bad behaviour in kids. Not all bad behaviour, but a lot of it.

@SillyBud I also do mean this respectfully, but I think a lot of people find that their opinion on how to parent/ discipline changes when they actually have children. Before, I thought it was as simple as being strict meant your child would therefore listen and do as they were told.

Hi @Scrunchies read Philippa Perry book - the book you wished your parents had read. It's all in there.

I'm sure I must have done stuff occasionally. I certainly wasn't perfect. But can I ever remember defying my parents? Honestly, I cannot

but you are contradicting yourself now, if you loved up to your parents ideal 24/7 like you claim then of course you were perfect.

Discipline in a classroom isn’t really comparable to the parent-child relationship. On the grand scale of things they may like some teachers more but it’s not really a significant emotional relationship for most. If students do have significant behaviour problems for whatever reason I really think the key is in additional support from trained professionals in the applicable area. That’s what is lacking in schools. And I do think schools have a vital role in identifying problems and supporting them

I also do mean this respectfully, but I think a lot of people find that their opinion on how to parent/ discipline changes when they actually have children. Before, I thought it was as simple as being strict meant your child would therefore listen and do as they were told

perhaps but my main gripe here is how there are so many threads with pile ons against parents for doing x,y and z which suggests many posters have the same mindset when I am asking then what is the answer?

@Scrunchies agree actual parenting is an enormous reality check!

Discipline in a classroom isn’t really comparable to the parent-child relationship

not in 2022, we are told it's all about building the mutual relationship of respect etc. Basically all the things posters said here about what equates to good parenting is exactly what we are told to do in school.

I don’t personally feel that letting your teen do whatever they like is the predominant view on mn. Some behaviours will be condemned because they are actually not acceptable/ bordering on abuse. If you let us know which threads perhaps it would make more sense?

I think nowadays there is this idea that parents need to be absolutely perfect or they will fuck up their kid forever. In no other area of life do we expect people to be so absolutely perfect. It is only parents that are expected to always be calm, in control, composed, unfazed, no matter how tired or stressed they are, no matter how challenging their kid. I have never read a parenting book that actually takes into account the reality of being a parent.
Parent-child relationships are always going to be just as difficult as all other relationships, and all parents will sometimes fail to behave correctly according to the experts.

And I think there is something wrong with a relationship where children never defy their parents, rebellion is an important part of growing up.

If you let us know which threads perhaps it would make more sense

eugh i hate when people on mn do this-challenge the poster to prove it, there have being threads and I am not going looking for them.

@SillyBud

I'm sure I must have done stuff occasionally. I certainly wasn't perfect. But can I ever remember defying my parents? Honestly, I cannot

but you are contradicting yourself now, if you loved up to your parents ideal 24/7 like you claim then of course you were perfect.

No, you're being ridiculous. Nobody is perfect, as you well know. My parents did not demand perfection because they were reasonable human beings. However, I cannot remember a single occasion when I did anything that would have disappointed my parents. That isn't a boast, it's just a statement of fact. I respected them and wanted to live up to the positive image that they had of me.

And I think there is something wrong with a relationship where children never defy their parents, rebellion is an important part of growing up

this- I still kind of think the poster who says this was like it for her is being tongue in cheek

@SillyBud

Discipline in a classroom isn’t really comparable to the parent-child relationship

not in 2022, we are told it's all about building the mutual relationship of respect etc. Basically all the things posters said here about what equates to good parenting is exactly what we are told to do in school.

Yes of course you should build respect, that was the same in the past. But the process isn’t going to be the same if you walk into a classroom of teens as parenting your own child from day 0. In some ways it will be much easier, in some ways harder, especially if foundations haven’t been laid.

Nobody is perfect, as you well know

I thought that until I encountered the story of you and your parents.

As a teacher, there are a few tenets of behaviour management that you must already be aware of, unless you really struggle with behaviour in your class…

1. It’s 90% carrot and 10% stick
2. Being angry/disappointed only works if the child in question cares that you are angry or disappointed- you have to earn their respect first.
3. Respect comes from consistent boundaries. Respond in the same way every time and everyone knows where they stand.
4. Shouting becomes less effective every time you do it.
5. Be clear on consequences every single time. If you choose to do this, the consequence will be this. And follow through every. Single. Time.

Having said that managing a class of 30 kids was way easier than bringing up my two now gorgeous adult children!

@Fallagain

Different parenting methods have different approaches. Gentle parenting is about talking it through and natural consequences so you hit your sister then you are going to feel guilty or you have been drawing on the walls means you can’t have pens unsupervised. The aim is to create children/adults who can regulate their own behaviour. Shouting at children is generally seen as a thing to avoid but gentle parenting acknowledges that no one can be perfect and it’s not good to aim for.

There is no one definition of good parenting. There is a minimum level of acceptable parenting but beyond that parenting is very individual.

actually no pens unsupervised would be a logical consequence. the natural consequence would be that the wall was ruined. - not wearing a coat natural consequence is that you are cold. a natural consequence is something that occurs without any input or intervention.

We tried therapeutic parenting for a while with our two who are adopted. the natural consequence etx weren't for me. i could accept them in my home.

i'm definitely more about logical consequence so the consequence relates directly the action. for what it's worth it not doing me much good with my youngest. she runs riot round school, doesn't come home, vapes, drinks alcohol etc. the logical consequences of her actions means she has not phone - using it to arrange running away etc abs no lap top - same reasons. she has no tv which was the natural consequence for her smashing it up two days after we bought it.

However logical consequences have worked very very welll my son and he is like a different kid since we started doing it. he can't stand unfairness abs is very logical so these consequences he can understand and knows why they are in place.