to ask what is the actual answer to good parenting?

[SillyBud]

Seen a very recent thread where posters said making threats to send a misbehaving child away should never be done, seen umpteen threads where a poster comes on and gets roasted for shouting at her kids, seen a million threads where that after 15 let the kids do what they want as they will do it anyway...

And I just think am I alone in think mn have completely lost the plot and have become detached from reality in their approaches to parenting?

Shouting at your kids every now again is not going to cause some life long trauma, likewise I hear people say punishment/sanctions are wrong too so what is the solution?

@SillyBud

you have to earn their respect first

Nah we should respect everybody, it's never something we have to 'earn'-such bullshit.

3. Respect comes from consistent boundaries. Respond in the same way every time and everyone knows where they stand.

Again no respect should come naturally-we should give everybody respect unless they do something awful to us.

5. Be clear on consequences every single time. If you choose to do this, the consequence will be this. And follow through every. Single. Time.

And in schools today some slt don't like consequences and tell teachers not to use them. They say it's about creating engaging lessons and building relationships. So then what do you [a seemingly expert} suggest?

I understand the point you are making about respect and what we SHOULD be doing, however we’re all aware that there are many many young people whose poor experiences have taught them that respect is not automatically given. In my many years of teaching, my most rewarding experiences have been with those students whose respect has been hard won. It’s about starting from where the student or young person actually is, not where you think they should be. So by that I mean, rather than thinking ‘this student SHOULD be acting respectfully’ thinking ‘something about this young person’s experience means they aren’t able to trust or respect me at the moment. What do I need to put in place to enable that to develop?’.

Equally your point about consequences- I’m not talking about throwing a detention on the system time and time again particularly - I agree this doesn’t really work to change the relationship between you and an individual student. I’m talking more about building a relationship with students where they really have got something to lose if they misbehave. If you’ve built a relationship successfully, then it will matter if a consequence of their actions is that you are disappointed in them, or that their favourite teacher calls home and tells their parent they are disappointed in them.

Same with parenting. You can’t just keep putting in sanctions like removing privileges or shouting at them if the respect isn’t there. Eventually the impact will be completely lost and they will just ignore it.

I agree with @Holly60. The 'worst-behaved' children ime aren't those whose parents have been a bit soft with them but those who have been brought up in a cycle of constant failure and punishment.

I also agree with @Holly60.

Children who have been treated with respect themselves are unlikely to have difficulty respecting others. Those who have not had that experience will not know how to show respect to anyone else. Why would they?

Yes, IMO parenting is objectively good or bad and individual styles absolutely do fall in to those categories. Eg shouting at your child frequently, humiliating them in public with this and generally telling them NO all the time is bad in fact it is terrible!

Good parenting is so different though between different parents, the standards can be so different.

I personally think good parenting is from when they are babies and you build that relationship of respect, with good communication and clear boundaries.

We were good kids, but we never wanted to upset our mum, it wasn't that we were scared of anything, we were never threatened with police or anything or shouted at by her but we didn't want to hurt her feelings, we respected her, we knew she was fair, we could talk to her without feeling judged she was always there for us.

Yes we had arguments, we weren't perfect, but we had a really good relationship and I try to mirror that with our DS.

He has clear boundaries.
It has been instilled in him to be kind and thoughtful
Manner are a must in our house
We have a loving and fun house.

Are we good parents, at the moment, yes we are, our DS always gets praised for his behaviour and manners while we are out, but he is only 4 so only time will tell if it continues.
Some parents don't see Instilling kindness and manners as a must, but could still say they are good parents as their children hit the values that they want them to. So there's no one guide to being a good parent I don't think.

Not me but from watching friends who have been good parents it seems that being fairly strict early on and having high expectations from very young ages means that as they get older they seem to be better behaved and organised.
Cannot say I have followed this myself exactly, but it seems to have worked, in my opinion with others older kids.

I'm confused. Is this thread about how teachers should shout at their kids or how parents should shout at their kids?
Parenting snd teaching are completely different. There's simply no comparison.
Sillybud you do seem really cross about something. Do you actually enjoy teaching? Do you like the kids you teach?

Again no respect should come naturally-we should give everybody respect unless they do something awful to us

Yes, respect should be shown to everyone, it shouldn't be respect your elders, it should just be respect everyone.

I don't think they need to do something "awful" to us for us to loose someone's respect, that individual just need to show us no respect, if you treat me with no respect, I will just naturally loose all respect for you and I shouldn't then have some misplaced idea that you need respect.

I do also teach our DS that anyone can be questioned and a position of authority does not equal fair and just actions. Providing you show respect and manners you are entitled to ask why something is happening or why something was done, irrespective of who that person is.

I don't think they need to do something "awful" to us for us to loose someone's respect, that individual just need to show us no respect, if you treat me with no respect, I will just naturally loose all respect for you and I shouldn't then have some misplaced idea that you need respect

and teachers generally do respect their pupils, the idea that teachers must earn the respect is a euphemism for kids saying I must get my own way.

and teachers generally do respect their pupils, the idea that teachers must earn the respect is a euphemism for kids saying I must get my own way.

Yes as I previously said, everyone should be respected, it shouldn't need to be earned. But it can be lost.

It’s about starting from where the student or young person actually is, not where you think they should be. So by that I mean, rather than thinking ‘this student SHOULD be acting respectfully’ thinking ‘something about this young person’s experience means they aren’t able to trust or respect me at the moment. What do I need to put in place to enable that to develop

oh you are 1 of them kind of teachers, suppose you think you are a psychologist and that had teacher who gets bad behaviour didn't earn the student's respect properly?

@SillyBud

I think it's all about the basic strength of the relationship. Love, trust, respect and consideration on all sides. And really good communication

ime this can be a euphemism for turning a blind eye. I see it in the classroom alot.

I really don't understand your concern with this.

I wanted my children to be respectful and considerate so I treated them respectfully and with consideration. It was always important to have a strong relationship with them with good communication so if problems did arise, we could work through them.

I don't believe I was turning a blind eye to anything troubling. I was a bit shouty when they were younger but that was because I wasn't really sure what I was doing. When I learnt how to manage myself better, it got a lot easier, calmer and more cooperative. Shouting rarely achieves very much.

I don't believe that stricter is better.

The compliant child is not necessarily the successful and happy adult.

Schools have traditionally tended to value the compliant child above all other children.

Maybe parents don't share this view?

I'm a teacher of teens
And a parent of 3 teens

I know I'm not doing a good job if I shout in either role. That's not to say I've never shouted, but when reflecting after the event i can always think of better things i could have done instead of shouting.

You sound bitter OP.

Maybe change schools?

Being a parent of teens will also change your view, i guarantee it.

Best advice I saw is concentrate on the relationship. (with your child)
If I’m ever not sure what to do, that’s what helps me decide.

I have 3 "good" kids all teens. The older 2 are neuro- diverse. Parenting them has always been about explanation and negotiation because my kids will fall apart or argue when shouted at or told "just do what I say". They understand intellectually that we are the parents and are in charge but emotionally they don't respond the way an NT child would to being told off. So I learned to parent the young people I have and it works for us.

I had to do a lot of explaining. Why things need to be done a particular way or why it had to be now. If they understand they will comply although not always happily. Sometimes I had to compromise and I always prioritize the outcome over how we get there.

We still have to negotiate compromise and explain but the kids really are very well behaved. They like order, and calm and for home to be a sanctuary from a confusing and noisy world so it suits all of us to be kind and get along.

We do fail at that regularly and shouting and disharmony happens but is generally trivial.

I am not a believer in shouting, it just shows you are angry which is not productive.

Holly is not "being a psychologist" she just sounds like she's being kind.

I agree very much with the meeting people where they are idea. My problem with this is that I am a bit prone to do it too much. It's tricky to combine with having good boundaries if you're not careful that can lead to people walking all over you.

But indeed, why would a detention or whatever matter to a student who is used to much worse at home? Why would exclusion be scary to a child who hates school? And so you can go either way with that - you can go for worse/scarier punishments (which is how you get to people saying things like "bring back the cane" which is ludicrous) OR you can say OK, reward and punishment clearly isn't going to work in this case, what are the alternatives? Generally the most effective alternative is the kids do well when they can model. As a teacher you can't do much about a student's home environment or experiences outside of school. As a parent that is very different.

Everything I know about parenting I learned from horses This includes: 'if they can't learn the way I teach, can I teach the way they learn?' Another phrase that helps is 'reward the try'.

Rigidity of approach and then getting angry when they don't comply doesn't work with any animals, including human animals.