Why do schools finish at 3?

[snowdropsandcrocuses]

Genuine question but before teachers come gunning for me, let me explain.

In particular I am referring to secondary schools here and have just been reading the thread on teachers having ridiculously short lunch breaks which got me thinking.

Why is there such a rush to finish school early? Finishing school at 4pm for example, would allow longer lunch breaks (giving teachers and pupils a full break plus allowing lunch clubs more time), could factor in a little more transition time and just take a bit of pressure off. It would definitely help parents as well. I'm struggling to see the negatives. This is not to say I want teachers to work even harder because I don't but I wonder if there is a particular mandate that dictates the maximum 'opening hours' of comprehensive schools?

@WonderfulYou

I’d like to experience a school in a different country like France where I assume lunchtimes are longer and see how they manage their behaviour.

I don't know about France but when dd went to a school in a different EU country but with a similar sociable food culture, she didn't have a lunch break because school finished at 1pm

@echt

try telling that to NHS staff, they often work 12 or 13 hour shifts

This isca thread about teachers' work

Start your own thread about NHS staff.

NOt only that, but they do that 3x per week, not 5.

@ShallWeTalkAboutBruno

Why don’t independent schools have issues with the children being ‘wild’ and ‘causing havoc’ on hour long lunch breaks?

Because they have much smaller pupil - adult ratios would be one reason.

@snowdropsandcrocuses

Interesting responses.

To those who are surprised by the 3pm finish, our local secondary starts at 8:35 and finishes at 3pm.

To the teachers that have responded, I'm interested to know what your 'contracted hours' are. I realise that with the onslaught of academies which essentially privatised the school system under our noses that the old 'public sector' rules went out the window but I am assuming you all have contracted hours. What are you 'supposed' to work. I note some have said 8-4 would push them over their 40hr week however lunch breaks are not paid so 8-4 Monday to Friday would equal 40hrs - minus 1hr lunch/break which would equal 7hour days x 5 = 35hours.

I realise teachers work many many more hours than that - which is supposedly balanced out by your holidays (I know you work them too).

Teachers contract states basically they work as long as it takes to get the job done! Wonder why no government has ever wanted to put number of hours instead...

Sometimes I have these mad dreams where I work 8-6 every day (maybe 8-5 Fridays), but then just.... come home. No carting books and laptops. No driving home planning what needs doing first. No laptop on the table while kids eat tea. No little jobs that end up taking hours (yes spreadsheet fuck ups; you).

And then, to finish work on Friday and not have to work out which section of the weekend you're going to give over to work.

Our towns local secondary’s times ar 840 to 3pm. They have 40 mins for dinner and a 20 minute break in the morning

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]@Poetree try telling that to NHS staff, they often work 12 or 13 hour shifts.[/quote]
And they’ll be paid for the time they work. Teacher’s are not contacted to work 7.30-6 but they can’t do their job without doing at least something similar to those hours.

@WonderfulYou

I’d like to experience a school in a different country like France where I assume lunchtimes are longer and see how they manage their behaviour.

I don't know about France but in Italy at least half of primary school children don't eat at school and finish before lunch. My 2 secondary aged children finish at either 12:00 or 13:00 so never eat at school. It's constant lessons from 8, including Saturday mornings.

Just another bit of extra information, even though it's not on topic. School lunch here costs just under 5 euros per day for a primary school child. This is in a remote village!

My children's secondary school finishes at 3. Seems very early. Primary finishes at 3:30.

@ShallWeTalkAboutBruno

Why don’t independent schools have issues with the children being ‘wild’ and ‘causing havoc’ on hour long lunch breaks?

Because they've got smaller classes...

Here's the thing mine went to independent school 8.30 to 5pm. Morning lessons then 12.15 to 1.30 lunch then years 5 to 9 had sports, hobbies until 3.30 short break then two more lessons. Wednesday afternoons everyone had activities. The school recognised the pupils couldn't do a full day of lessons

Come GCSE and A-level they had more lessons studying but they were older by then

Friends in USA say after school clubs where they live are expected, if your work is behind extra study otherwise hobbies. But it's separate staffing for some sports tuition. This was mid west

I also wonder how many kids in independent schools are in gangs outside school, or have beef in the park last night and bring it in to school, or called Johhny's sister a fucking stag or gave Annie's boyfriend a blow job behind Asda.

*slag. Not sure a stag would have the same impact.

One of the final remaining perks of teaching is that you can be home by 3:30 after working since 7.30 am to look after your own kids. Take that away and even more teachers will leave but essentially more than 30 minutes and the kids get up to stuff that creates problems in school.The boys ( many of them) just can't handle unstructured time so you keep them on a tight leash.

I am in the USA and it is not expected that you stay after school-if you are willing to you get paid to run clubs. The after-school staff step in and entertain the kids till 6 pm each day thank goodness. Parking lot empty by 3:30 pm and many teachers refuse to go a minute over their contracted 30 hour week unless paid for any extra work.Much better work life balance I will say that.

Haven’t read the whole thread. The early school finish times I do find a bit odd now. We are in France. In primary the day was:

7:30am morning garderie starts
8:30am start
1200 finish
Lunchtime 1200 to 215pm
2:15pm start
4:30pm finish
6:30pm after-school garderie closes

So nursery and primary aged kids can be in school from 0730 to 1830, four days a week. It fits with the working day. Before school, after school and lunchtime activities are not done by teachers, a separate organisation supervises these, teachers have zero involvement during the 2.25 hour lunch break.

At secondary, my kids start at 8am, have 1.5 hrs for lunch, then finish any time between 3:30pm and 5:30pm. I can’t say that anti social behaviour is an issue despite the long lunch break. For kids that stay in school there are sports / other activities. Again, lunchtime are not supervised by teachers - this is the job of the vie scolaire, to monitor behaviour.

One big difference is that secondary teachers are not required to stay in school all day. They come in, teach their lessons, are free to leave and go home. It’s very different.

Our local high school finishes at 2.15. I find that insanely early. What's the rush? We used to finish school at 4pm with an hour for lunch. I think that's much bettter.

School finishes at 3 so teachers can finish at 6. If schools were open til 5, teachers would finish at 8.

workwoes123

Others may have said it as well, but as you have posted the main difference is that is other countries teachers don't have anything to do with the before and afterschool clubs.

They teach and are respected for it.

My kids were home at 1pm every day here in Germany .Sometimes at 11am on the really hot days (Hitzefrei) .

USA here. Elementary 9am to 3:30, high school 7:30 to 2:30pm. High school early start is rotten; none of the kids are properly awake. Some districts have swapped it around. Elementary after-care is contracted out. Teachers leave quite promptly most of the time, but of course take work home. High school teachers more likely to have meetings, do clubs/sports (for extra pay) or offer extra help.

Lunch break 40min for high school. Elementary has shorter lunch but they have recess.

@Fretfulmum

It’s funny that if you read posts about private vs state schools, most of MN jump on to say a bright child will achieve the same whether they are in private or state. Judging by this thread, how on earth can a bright child get the same level of education as one who has a decent lunch break to unwind, attend clubs to encourage lateral thinking and improve their knowledge and have rested teachers teaching them through the afternoon?

A decent lunch break not just to "unwind", but to actually eat lunch. A previous poster talked about kids in state schools being either unruly or sleepy during the last lesson - the number of those kids who are either hangry, or who have simply run out of fuel, must be huge. A whole school day with nothing to eat since you had a few slices of toast at 7 am - how can kids be expected to learn?

@erinnnnn

In Scotland teachers are employed for a 35 hour week, 22.5 hours in class and 7.5 personal allowance.

That adds up to thirty. Other 5 hours are for what teachers in England would call directed time.

I hate the idea of children being in school any longer then they are now. I would seriously reconsider his place in a school setting if it came in here.
I already think its too long now.