Why do schools finish at 3?

[snowdropsandcrocuses]

Genuine question but before teachers come gunning for me, let me explain.

In particular I am referring to secondary schools here and have just been reading the thread on teachers having ridiculously short lunch breaks which got me thinking.

Why is there such a rush to finish school early? Finishing school at 4pm for example, would allow longer lunch breaks (giving teachers and pupils a full break plus allowing lunch clubs more time), could factor in a little more transition time and just take a bit of pressure off. It would definitely help parents as well. I'm struggling to see the negatives. This is not to say I want teachers to work even harder because I don't but I wonder if there is a particular mandate that dictates the maximum 'opening hours' of comprehensive schools?

I had an hour and 20 mins at lunchtime when I was at secondary school. My friends and I all thought it was a dreadful waste of time and that it would be much better if we had a much shorter break and finished earlier. I was therefore delighted to find that dd's school had a sensible lunchbreak and finished much earlier. So much safer not having to walk home in the dark and so much more time for extracurricular activities both in and out of school.

I can understand why you'd want a longer lunchtime at primary school, but not at secondary. There is no need and it is just dead time. In any case, the cost of longer lunchtimes is an issue as others have said. Schools don't have the funding these days to spend on staffing that isn't strictly necessary, so reducing the cost of lunchtime supervision is a no brained.

No brainer!

We live in France. Lunch all through college (11-15) and primary was 90 minutes. Local kids often go home.

School days are longer 8-5 with optional study periods until 6.30. Good for parents as everyone can work without huge childcare issues.

1/2 days on Wednesday for sports.

I don't know whether boarding schools still do this, but back in the dark ages when I was at one, afternoon lessons in the autumn and spring terms started at 4.15 pm. They were slightly shorter lessons and were timetabled to go on till, I think, around 6.15

They do, or at least a lot of them do. The kids do music, sports, other clubs or CCF etc between lunch and the afternoon lessons. Makes sense in the winter because you can do outdoors stuff when it's still light and then do lessons when it's dark. I find my concentration is better when I've exercised so possibly that's another factor.

My dd's school (grammar) finishes at 3:45pm, they get 3 x 15min breaks plus an hour for lunch.

Some of you have very strange school hours, are you in the UK? Most secondaries I know of finish 3.45 at the earliest and primaries at 3.30 both with an hours lunch and options for breakfast and after school clubs both starting around 8.30-8.45

In my childhood (years and years ago) primary schools all finished at 3.30pm and secondary schools at 4pm. I don't know why it was changed. By secondary school we had a morning break and a longer lunch break but no afternoon break at all.

One alternative is to scrap lunch altogether. I remember at school going in a German exchange trip. The school day started earlier but finished at 1. Most of the kids went home for lunch and then had the rest of the day for homework/clubs etc.

My daughters secondary school starts at 8.30am and finishes at 2.30pm, they have 30 mins for lunch for their year group, a lot of the time she never manages to eat all her packed lunch, as they have to queue to use the dining area,

@ShallWeTalkAboutBruno

Why don’t independent schools have issues with the children being ‘wild’ and ‘causing havoc’ on hour long lunch breaks?

Because they can select who attends and remove any with bad behaviour.

My first primary was 9-4pm but we used to have a time with heads on desks to rest.

I think we expect a lot from teenagers and staying focused for several hours can be difficult for anyone. They have to complete homework once they get home.

Then there is travelling home in the dark, something we try to minimise.

Independent schools are usually much smaller than a 1500 pupil secondary school. Proportionally they have more outside space per child and probably space for everyone to sit and eat.

As for clubs, I don't want to run one at lunch time. I wouldn't be paid any more for it and I have stuff to do. Same with after school stuff. I have enough to do and I want to see my kids.

I agree @Hercisback. I've done many clubs over the years but the goodwill is gone and the workload is massive.

Who do you think runs the clubs at lunchtime?

Teachers, so a longer lunch break is likely to put more pressure on them to run a club.

Pupil behaviour goes down with too much unstructured time.
Staff have children and primary school wrap around care is pretty rubbish - who's going to look after their kids after dcool

I don't mind running a lunchtime club but it's voluntary and lunch is an hour so I don't have to do it instead of lunch (independent).

@etulosba

I don’t know of any schools where normal lessons finished at quarter to 5. Whereabouts and when was this?

Fifty something years ago. North of Watford.

Somebody else posted that their children's school currently finishes at 4:45.

That is very very unusual.

I am baffled that there is a feeling amongst some here that if private schools can do it and don’t have behavioural issues, it will work everywhere else!

@Howshouldibehave

I am baffled that there is a feeling amongst some here that if private schools can do it and don’t have behavioural issues, it will work everywhere else!

That’s not why I asked the question. I was just wondering what is different at independent schools that mean the children there don’t go wild at lunchtimes. It was just a question.

The school I work at reduced lunch to 35 minutes and finish at 3pm. Lunch clubs are very limited because of this. We offer a wealth of after school clubs/activities though.

Cutting down on unstructured time is to try and reduce anti social behaviour/bullying and also reduce what is a stressful time for some introverted/quiet/neuridiverse kids. There are still a huge amount of problems with vaping/mis use of mobile phones and falling out/bullying.
I really think lunch times need to be staffed fully (just SLT and small pastoral team). It would be very expensive to do though. Teachers would have to have a lunch break before or after the kids and kids would need a staggered lunch. More clubs/sport and activities could take place then. If staff were paid.

However, the afternoon would probably be even harder work. Sadly, a lot of the new curriculum is too hard, irrelevant and boring for some kids so messing around is preferable. I really wish the govt would look again at how to make the curriculum work for all kids. There would be considerably less problems then and possibly a reduction in anxiety/school refusal.

@ShallWeTalkAboutBruno

Way less kids for a start, we’ve got more kids in year 7 and 8 than our local private school has in the whole school.

Private schools can easily move kids on who don’t behave- we’ve tried to permanently exclude 2 kids now for a year and our governors keep blocking it

There isn’t much for our kids to do at lunch time, not many clubs or outdoor space

We’ve got issues with family’s belonging to gangs so their kids affiliate with these gangs- causes us a lot of issues

Some parents are very unhelpful and don’t discipline their kids or even worse take their kids side

@snowdropsandcrocuses

Genuine question but before teachers come gunning for me, let me explain.

In particular I am referring to secondary schools here and have just been reading the thread on teachers having ridiculously short lunch breaks which got me thinking.

Why is there such a rush to finish school early? Finishing school at 4pm for example, would allow longer lunch breaks (giving teachers and pupils a full break plus allowing lunch clubs more time), could factor in a little more transition time and just take a bit of pressure off. It would definitely help parents as well. I'm struggling to see the negatives. This is not to say I want teachers to work even harder because I don't but I wonder if there is a particular mandate that dictates the maximum 'opening hours' of comprehensive schools?

Because whatever work teachers would do in that hour between three and four, they would have to do later in the day, making their entire working day much longer. If they normally leave work at 5, they’d be leaving g at 6. If they normally leave at 6, they’d be leaving at 7, having maybe been in work since 7.30am.

11.5 hour days are a bit much, don’t you think?

At my DD’s old (grammar) school lunchtime clubs were often run by sixth formers. Takes the pressure off teachers and allows them to develop leadership skills.

Not having enough time to eat is awful! They must all end up with indigestion. Why do we not value mealtimes in the UK? Lunchtime should be long enough to sit down and eat a relaxed meal. Bring back tables and chairs rather than those awful tables with attached stools, and proper plates rather than plastic divided trays.

@Poetree try telling that to NHS staff, they often work 12 or 13 hour shifts.

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]@Poetree try telling that to NHS staff, they often work 12 or 13 hour shifts.[/quote]
I assume they are paid for all of that time though.

Are teachers paid by the hour then?