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Why do schools finish at 3?

327 replies

snowdropsandcrocuses · 04/02/2022 21:06

Genuine question but before teachers come gunning for me, let me explain.

In particular I am referring to secondary schools here and have just been reading the thread on teachers having ridiculously short lunch breaks which got me thinking.

Why is there such a rush to finish school early? Finishing school at 4pm for example, would allow longer lunch breaks (giving teachers and pupils a full break plus allowing lunch clubs more time), could factor in a little more transition time and just take a bit of pressure off. It would definitely help parents as well. I'm struggling to see the negatives. This is not to say I want teachers to work even harder because I don't but I wonder if there is a particular mandate that dictates the maximum 'opening hours' of comprehensive schools?

OP posts:
whywouldntyou · 05/02/2022 08:51

I used to do 9-3.45, left school, went to college that was 9-4.45. Thing is when kids finally start work going from a 6 hour day to at least 8 is a horrendous shock. My son work 10 hour shifts, he would never have done that straight from school/college! It is not preparing them for the real world!

HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime · 05/02/2022 08:53

We used to have an hour lunch break but there were so many fights and bullying incidents it got changed to 30 mins. 30 mins is just about long enough to eat and go to the loo.

School also doesn't finish at 3 for the teachers, I rarely leave before 4:30 and still take work home. Senior teachers have meetings etc.

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 08:53

This will now turn into a teacher bashing thread I expect, but research regularly shows most full time teachers work 50 to 60 hours a week in term-time, so there is not much flex there for anything additional. Most clubs, activities and trips are run out of goodwill and do not attract any extra pay.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

FoamBurst · 05/02/2022 08:55

Ds secondary is 8 40 to 2.40.
15 min morning break.
25 min lunch

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 08:56

I work approx 40 hours a week on a 0.6 contact (plus 12 hours approx commuting). Needing to stay an extra hour at school every day would make the job unviable (we finish 4ish officially).

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 08:56

Contract not contact.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 05/02/2022 08:59

It’s because they got get supervision staff at lunchtime. And who would honestly want to work for one hour a day for peanuts dealing with a load of teens?!

When l was teaching we had an hour, but that was reduced for 2 reasons. Behaviour outside school at lunch time, and behaviour in school at lunch time. And this was in a posh leafy suburb school.

refraction · 05/02/2022 09:00

@bendmeoverbackwards

Are teachers paid by the hour then?
No its a salary.
niceupthedanceagain · 05/02/2022 09:02

No wonder there's so much disordered eating at secondary school if the choice is stuff your face or have any kind of break

whattodo2019 · 05/02/2022 09:03

Private school i work in doesnt finish until 6pm

bendmeoverbackwards · 05/02/2022 09:03

@refraction that’s what I thought. So the comment made by @Sherrystrull doesn’t make sense.

refraction · 05/02/2022 09:04

We have an hour for lunch. Finish at 3.15.

The behaviour lesson 4 and 5 is extermely chewy. They are much more focused in the morning. They just can't maintain the cognitive load all day.
We also have major issues with vaping in the toilets at the moment.

refraction · 05/02/2022 09:05

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]**@refraction* that’s what I thought. So the comment made by @Sherrystrull* doesn’t make sense.[/quote]
Do they mean NHS can have over time if it goes beyond their hours?

etulosba · 05/02/2022 09:06

Who do you think runs the clubs at lunchtime?

The pupils themselves?

ldontWanna · 05/02/2022 09:07

Mainly because the system is not set up for it, so extending the school day means extra workload and more unpaid hours worked by teachers.

Everything from marking,to staffing ,to resources etc takes a lot of time,money and work. Then you have meetings,assessment,interventions and all the other hats teachers are supposed to wear.

I'm educated in another country and by the end of secondary we had 2 8 hours days and the other 3 were 7 hours . But I have never seen a teacher mark books in their breaks or lunch for example. Many came in just for the hours they were actually teaching and then left. Starting in primary we all had text books for every single subject (so not much planning or resources needed) and two books to write in ,one for classwork ,one for homework. We'd get grades on classwork(homework could be included) and tests ,which did take a lot of time to get through but most teachers did it at home and they weren't that often.

Teachers were just there to teach, whether you think that's a good thing or not that's up to you.

In comparison, my teacher comes in at 7 , gets most things ready for the day, then she runs a breakfast club with my help from 8, 9 teaching starts, kids leave at 3:15. Some days she does an after school club as well. Staff meetings , pupil progress meetings, meetings with this or that parent, finish planning because during her planning session this and that happened, 45 min phone call for that kid, and it's 6 o'clock and she hasn't even looked at the next day and there's still assessments to be done, several books to mark,that to check and email just came in that has a long list of things to do or change.

I'm just a TA and I already find it stressful and busy enough, just the admin ,interventions and actual work bit, without adding all the issues that come with the kids.

Chosenonesneakymincepie · 05/02/2022 09:07

Teachers are officially paid for 1265 hours a year. So roughly 6.25 hours a day. Lunchtime is not paid so duties are voluntary or you might be offered a free school 'meal'. Most accept that planning and marking have to happen outside those hours. Teachers can't be directed to offer extra clubs and activities that they are not paid to do and most run on 'goodwill'.

Sherrystrull · 05/02/2022 09:17

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]**@refraction* that’s what I thought. So the comment made by @Sherrystrull* doesn’t make sense.[/quote]
How does it not make sense?

Ok, I'm on a salary. That doesn't meant I should work unlimited hours for no extra pay. Hmm

Hercisback · 05/02/2022 09:20

The pupils themselves?

Without supervision?

diddl · 05/02/2022 09:21

Kids go rogue if they have too long for lunch?

That is awful.

When I was at school we just wouldn't have dared-being sent to headmisress & then told off by your parents-just wasn't worth it.

Plus the time was needed to get everyone through the dining hall.

If you think that's an early finish though, my kids did 8-12 at primary, 8-1.15 at 2ndry. (We are in Germany)

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 09:21

You can't realistically have sixth form run all the clubs. For one thing most of them want to exercise their new right to go out to lunch. And secondly they have their own clubs. And thirdly the equipment needs getting out and putting away and in our school at least, a register must be kept. The insurance would be interesting too if it was sports and someone was injured.

Having said that one of mine did run my club as a one off when I was off with Covid but I wouldn't try to make her responsible all the time, not fair.

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 09:23

diddl presumably if you'd been told off your parents would have taken the teacher's side? (mine would have). Not so much nowadays!

Hercisback · 05/02/2022 09:24

When I was at school we just wouldn't have dared-being sent to headmisress & then told off by your parents-just wasn't worth it.

Nowadays your parents would phone the school and defend your actions.

blameitonthecaffeine · 05/02/2022 09:25

Chosenone and the PP who asked why longer lunch is possible in independent schools - not being able to use/force teachers to staff lunch is another big reason then. If you need additional money to pay for supervisors (who don't know the pupils as well for a start) then of course it's going to be harder to control children and result in shorter breaktimes.

In independent schools (the ones I have experience of anyway) there is no such thing as a set number of hours to be worked. So duties and clubs are a significant part of our timetables.

Generally, an hour long lunch break will involve:
10 -15 members of staff eating with the children
10 members of staff on supervision duty in the dining rooms
8 members of staff and 8 lunchtime supervisors on outside supervision
About 10 clubs being staffed - some by 6th form
Staffing of the libraries

So probably about 1/3 of the staff are on duty each day. How often individual staff are on duty depends on how heavy their timetables and after school schedules are.

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 09:26

And the Head might take the kid's side!

Phineyj · 05/02/2022 09:27

Yes, blame is correct, it's mainly a staff:student ratio issue along with space.