Why is it socially acceptable to bully quiet people?

[Sweetchocolatecandy]

As a generally quiet person I’ve had to suffer this all throughout my life. Even today in a training group with people I hardly know someone said ‘god you’re so quiet, can you even talk lol’ and another person agreed saying ‘you’ve said like 3 words all week’. The truth is, I really can’t stand these people so although I’m curteous and polite I’ll only talk to them about work-related matters and I can’t bring myself to join in their shit conversations that I don’t care about.

Why is it socially acceptable to bully and belittle quiet people (and it is, because this sort of thing has happened loads in front of managers and teachers in the past) but if if replied ‘why are you such a gobshite that never shuts up?’ I would probably have been taken off the floor and given a disciplinary.

How do other people respond when they get accused of being too quiet?

@Pileonsally

This!! If everyone was quiet and couldn't be arsed with chit chat then noone would make friends, get ideas, feel welcome.

I'm an extrovert.. guess what? I also can't be arsed with chit chat but equally someone needs to speak!

Omg thank you. There's always this argument about extroverts vs introverts constantly. As if there's some superiority with either. Ultimately, at work dependent on what you role is you will need to adapt. I'm not a naturally extrovert really, but have to constantly do things out of my comfort zone. Yeah they shouldn't have commented like they did, but have you made enough effort yourself? It's incredibly tiring when you have a team of both, and Noone makes the effort to understand where the other side are coming from. A little more understanding from both your parts would be hopeful.

Also your recent drip feed sounds like your making excuses for you being completely unreasonable.

@Stravaig

Here's the thing. Extroverts are rarely silent and still long enough to create the space in which introverts can step forward. And, for all their complaints about our quietness, extroverts don't much like it when we do speak.

Extroverts are those who force themselves on others, all the time, in a thousand large and small ways. They never stop to ask themselves 'Is what I'm saying or doing necessary? Is it beneficial? Is it welcome?'

To an introvert, it's unrelenting noise and bustle, which we did not choose, and from which we cannot escape. It's an overload of low quality enviromental stimuli which have to be filtered out for a healthy life.

Of course, it's not so clear-cut, more of a continuum. I'm exaggerating and caricaturing here, because that's another thing about extroverts - you need a sledgehammer to penetrate their obliviousness to others!

A perfect exemplar of the superior self-proclaimed introvert. 'Low-quality environmental stimuli' (which, if it weren't so ridiculous, could actually be read as quite dehumanising. And there's a lot of blanket prejudice here. 'Extroverts' are like this and like that, they do this and that, with no recognition that NAEALT - for all the 'I don't mean to be rude but'-level claim of exaggerating tacked on to the end).

I'd categorise myself as a reserved extrovert, if there is such a thing - in that I enjoy interacting with others and find it easy but tend to hold back and listen in groups, esp at first - and I have noticed a tendency recently for self-identified introverts to proclaim themselves some kind of superior species, profound, sensitive and intelligent where extroverts are superficial babbling airheads. But being able to interact with others is an important skill and a social glue, and sometimes heavy lifting is involved. If nobody were willing to do it, a lot of tasks at all kinds of societal levels would become hard to impossible.

It’s fairly easy to smile and ask people how they are. Or to ask them about something they have mentioned and take an interest. I just can’t believe that not one has any redeeming qualities. My trick is to find something I like about each person . Or to see if they remind me of someone I like. Or to find common ground. Etc. Someone who is cold, aloof and resentful is going to struggle as much as someone who
admits to committing crimes. (People also often talk rubbish during training so take it with a pinch of salt.). For many companies being a team
Player is important.

(OTOH I am a bit puzzled about a (peculiarly British?) tendency to deploy 'quiet' as an insult sometimes)

I mean this kindly but I will be straightforward; I think the issue is with you. It’s how you perceive what is being said and take it too personally/let it upset you.
If you’re hostile to them before they speak to you, everything they say will be taken badly.

I’m generally quiet too, and I just laugh when people say shit like this to me and say something along the lines of ‘I just like to take it all in’ or ‘I’m just a quiet person.’

I don’t feel bullied or belitted, I see it as gentle ribbing that people do to tease a response out of you. I also don’t give it a second thought.

Extroverts are those who force themselves on others, all the time, in a thousand large and small ways. They never stop to ask themselves 'Is what I'm saying or doing necessary? Is it beneficial? Is it welcome?'

Those type of people are just dicks.

They come under the same category of twat as people who proclaim them selves as “I’m mad, me!” or people who pride themselves on being the sort of person who “tells it like it is and calls a spade a spade”.

All rude, space invading idiots who love the sound of their own voice.

I am with you on this.

I stick to work related conversation with most people and don't care about their endless gossiping and inane conversations about what they did at the weekend.

I am a bit more relaxed with my own team though as I know them better and they are lovely people and we do have some nice chats too.

You can't and should not change your personality.

A lot of these training sessions and team bonding exercises are totally pointless.

If you really feel like the odd one out all the time though you might just be in the wrong organisation.

@Smartiepants79

I’m not particularly an extrovert and the comments were not particularly polite but in my experience working with someone who NEVER speaks is draining and hard work. Especially training with a person you don’t know well who gives you nothing to work with. Do you never even make small talk, give an opinion or suggestion. Ask or answer questions?? If not then I’d struggle to work with you and I’d probably end up talking a lot more than normal to fill in the awkward silences. Quiet is not the same as silent. Working together involves conversation and exchange of ideas it’s very hard when you’re the only one contributing to that. I’d also be worried that you were ill/depressed/I’d offended you unwittingly. I would never comment on it though and certainly not in a way that was unkind.

This. I speak softly, and loud people tell me I'm "quiet" (I like your gobshite term OP). But I am not silent - I think that's antisocial.

@MummyGummy

To all those saying it’s rude not to contribute and not make an effort to converse, there are so many undiagnosed autistic adults who may come across as extremely quiet but are actually experiencing a form of selective mutism in group situations.

It is perfectly possible for someone to complete training or do their job without having to join in with general chit chat. The expectation that they have to or should make more effort is ableist.

Thank you for saying this.

It's helpful to frame in terms of diversity - of mind, of perception, of experiencing the world - than the blunt divisions of extrovert/introvert.

‘ If everyone was quiet, the world would be a pretty boring and flat place to be. ’
If everyone was quiet the world would be Finland. If you’re an introvert you should really go there some time, it’s bliss! Everyone is quiet and small talk rarely happens. The extrovert loudness in our society is cultural, people don’t have to be like that.

‘ It is perfectly possible for someone to complete training or do their job without having to join in with general chit chat. The expectation that they have to or should make more effort is ableist.’
Hear hear! People can have a variety of issues that make socialisation difficult for them. It doesn’t mean they should be excluded from the workplace.

‘ It’s fairly easy to smile and ask people how they are. Or to ask them about something they have mentioned and take an interest. ’

No it isn’t. Not if, for example, you’re autistic. This is a very ableist viewpoint.

@Strugglingtodomybest

How is commenting on how quiet you are "bullying"? Genuine question because that doesn't fit into my idea of bullying, IE, "seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable)".

When you're told your whole life, by strangers, friends and family, that you are 'quiet' - it's a real blow to your confidence, if you feel like you're trying hard to be chatty and contribute at that moment and to get out of the 'shell' that everyone thinks you should crawl out if. It feels like a putdown, a reductive insult, like it's the most fascinating observation someone can make about you, your most overriding personality and character trait, that being 'quiet' is all you are, have been and ever will be, that demolishes any kind of attempts you are trying to make to appear confident and to engage with other people when you get knocked back and derided again and again.....it's truly soul destroying

Wow, people really are getting into this whole extrovert/introvert thing aren't they? At best it's junk psuedo psychology.

A lot of these training sessions and team bonding exercises are totally pointless

I don’t disagree but if your employer has asked you to do some training then surely you should go and try and do this in a professional spirit? And if OP doesn’t like the training approach because it doesn’t work for her being a quieter person then provide some feedback after the training about what could be done better in future.

I’m a quieter person too but I don’t think this an introvert / extrovert issue per se. I’ve been in group exercise which make me want to curl up internally but I know it’s because I feel uncomfortable which is my issue. Not other peoples. Therefore you have to step out of your comfort zone a bit and try and offer some input. Yes the the people you are with might not be your cup of tea but it’s understandable other people will get frustrated if you don’t contribute at all. OP said in her first post she hardly knew these people, then second post she knows they are drink drivers and animal abusers? Doesn’t add up.

Anyway, if OP comes back I think she should say what the training was, what she contributed and people can help find constructive ways to help overcome such sessions rather than a thread of people bitching about introverts vs extroverts (the truth is we are all somewhere between the two, often depending on the situation).

@Alayalaya

‘ If everyone was quiet, the world would be a pretty boring and flat place to be. ’ If everyone was quiet the world would be Finland. If you’re an introvert you should really go there some time, it’s bliss! Everyone is quiet and small talk rarely happens. The extrovert loudness in our society is cultural, people don’t have to be like that.

‘ It is perfectly possible for someone to complete training or do their job without having to join in with general chit chat. The expectation that they have to or should make more effort is ableist.’
Hear hear! People can have a variety of issues that make socialisation difficult for them. It doesn’t mean they should be excluded from the workplace.

I've spent quite a bit of time in Finland. It's true they're not "loud" but they're not silent introverts. Everyone we met was genuinely interested in people and very good at "small talk" even in a second language. They weren't rude like OP's example.

I work with a few very introverted people. They’re collaborative and communicative in other ways and pleasant to work with and no one pushes them to communicate is a specific way. But what you’re describing is different. it’s not because you’re just quiet. You dont like these people and that’s why you don’t talk to them. That’s different to training with a friendly, kind, quiet person who just doesn’t talk much. Sounds like they can sense your animosity towards them and are reacting to it. I don’t think they feel like you have been polite and pleasant to train with this week based on their comments. I think their comments were a polite way of addressing the negativity you’re giving them. But why do you even care so much given you don’t even like them?

I read the thread title and was ready to jump in to agree with you, but then I read the first post and updates and feel differently.

It's true, as a naturally quiet person, I do experience a regular form of bullying. People do like to tell you, often quite aggressively, that "you don't speak much" or mimic my voice in an exaggerated whisper - and I can tell you that as someone who finds it difficult to find the confidence to voice opinions at time, having someone bellow at you to "say something", is not at all helpful.

That's not to say that I never contribute to discussions though, in the workplace or elsewhere. I have always found it difficult to jump in with unsolicited opinions and when I've tried to train myself to do so, I've been accused of interrupting or being rude when, to my mind, I'm not doing anything different to everyone else in the meeting who are talking over each other constantly. I just seem to lack the ability to read social cues in these environments. tbh, remote working has been a godsend because almost every meeting involves the chair asking for opinions and for people to use the hand-up function so I know that if I have something to contribute I will be given a chance to speak in a systematic way. In face-to-face situations, I'd often think of a valid point, then be frantically waiting for the right moment to interject which would never come because others would keep going on without pause and then the conversation would move on and the moment would be lost so I'd either sit there saying nothing, and be criticised, or try to interject and be told off for interrupting.

But sitting in a group, feeling mutinous towards others (even if you have very good reason) will show on your face so in this case the anger will be about your attitude more than your introversion.

@user1497207191
I sound similar to you socially, thoughtful conversations with fewer people, lot of crafting and outdoor activities. Remembering treasured evenings with a friend, long conversations meandering via silence, a household task, or him playing the next few 'sentences' on the piano.

I don't think this is about you being quiet, it's about you disliking the people you work with and then realising that. From what you've said, they sound like arseholes. I'm quite outgoing but wouldn't make an effort with people who openly admit to drink driving. I'd be looking for a new hub, working with people like this must be miserable.

In general circumstances though, on a training situation with 'normal' people, I do think you should try to join in the conversation. Being quiet is fine, but literally saying nothing comes across as a bit rude and stand offish.

I’m generally quiet too, and I just laugh when people say shit like this to me and say something along the lines of ‘I just like to take it all in’ or ‘I’m just a quiet person.’

I don’t feel bullied or belitted, I see it as gentle ribbing that people do to tease a response out of you. I also don’t give it a second thought.

Exactly. Before I learned how to come forward in social situations more (and especially when I was younger) this was the sort of thing I got. And "gentle ribbing" is exactly how I saw it. My response used to be along the lines of "I'm more of a listener" with a smile. I certainly didn't, and still wouldn't, see it as bullying. That's needless hyperbole, unless someone is consistently unpleasant about it.

@Marianne1234

Self-proclaimed introverts just look down on and think they are so superior to people who are not like them. I float somewhere in the middle but the people I know who call themselves introverts are judgemental arseholes.

I agree with this . Some of the pps on here who call themselves 'introverts' are just rude - calling extroverts empty vessels is ridiculous.

I am an extrovert but my DH is an introvert. He is just quiet - not rude or up himself

@Alayalaya

‘ It’s fairly easy to smile and ask people how they are. Or to ask them about something they have mentioned and take an interest. ’

No it isn’t. Not if, for example, you’re autistic. This is a very ableist viewpoint.

Point taken. But I am talking to OP who has made no mention of being autistic, has said she Can’t stand her coworkers and seems baffled that they seem to have picked up on this.

@shedevill

When you're told your whole life, by strangers, friends and family, that you are 'quiet' - it's a real blow to your confidence, if you feel like you're trying hard to be chatty and contribute at that moment and to get out of the 'shell' that everyone thinks you should crawl out if. It feels like a putdown, a reductive insult, like it's the most fascinating observation someone can make about you, your most overriding personality and character trait, that being 'quiet' is all you are, have been and ever will be, that demolishes any kind of attempts you are trying to make to appear confident and to engage with other people when you get knocked back and derided again and again.....it's truly soul destroying

I full agree. It starts at school, when despite getting top marks in everything and never being in trouble, the teachers put down "too quiet in class" etc on your report instead of saying you're doing well and are no bother. That just highlights a non existent problem and start you down the road of social anxiety. I had it as a child and my son got it too. At his first secondary school parent's evening, I challenged the teachers who said it, as I didn't want my son to suffer the social anxiety that I suffered. When a teacher said he was too quiet, I asked straight back, is his work good? Is he behaving? Does he have friends in class? etc - i.e. the real important issues. There was one teacher who didn't mention quietness, so I asked her and she said he was one of the quieter ones, but would always talk and answer when she asked him to and she said that if she had a class full of children like him, she'd be a lot happier. Upon returning home, I passed on that message to DS which made him a lot happier and gave him more confidence to speak up in class - i.e. nurturing rather than complaining it!

@saraclara

I’m generally quiet too, and I just laugh when people say shit like this to me and say something along the lines of ‘I just like to take it all in’ or ‘I’m just a quiet person.’

I don’t feel bullied or belitted, I see it as gentle ribbing that people do to tease a response out of you. I also don’t give it a second thought.

Exactly. Before I learned how to come forward in social situations more (and especially when I was younger) this was the sort of thing I got. And "gentle ribbing" is exactly how I saw it. My response used to be along the lines of "I'm more of a listener" with a smile. I certainly didn't, and still wouldn't, see it as bullying. That's needless hyperbole, unless someone is consistently unpleasant about it.

Trouble is that a lot of quiet/introverted people are that way because they've been bullied, so even minor things as an adult bring back unhappy memories and it seems like bullying. After all, in childhood, a lot of bullying starts of as "gentle ribbing" or "banter" but quickly turns into full on abuse.