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New development on missing Andrew Gosden case.

218 replies

ClaraThePigeon · 11/01/2022 14:06

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-59952786

I hope that this latest development gives that poor boy's family answers, terrible as they may be. I can't imagine the hell they've had to live with every day since his disappearance.

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 19/01/2022 14:41

Oh I remember him, he was all over billboards for a missing children’s charity in the city near me. Remember the Asha case as well, I remember what I found horrible is that people did see her out walking. Surely if you saw a small girl out walking unattended in the night you’d just phone the police instantly. I would anyway.

I think it’s so horrible too that someone out there knows what happens to these ‘disappeared’ children. We’re not in a fantasy novel, they don’t just disappear into thin air. How could you live day to day knowing that?

I will be hoping that Andrew’s family find out what happened to him and can find some peace.

Kanaloa · 19/01/2022 14:52

@Shapiro

I saw that storyline on criminal minds I think. I remember the parents had sort of smashed up the bedroom to make it appear the child had been kidnapped by a stranger, but actually it was the older brother who was frustrated at his brother playing with his toys and breaking them.

Whydoyoucareaboutthis · 19/01/2022 15:48

Kanaloa the chances of the witnesses having mobile phone in the Asha case is small.

I've been down a rabbit hole, it is shocking how many cases there were, especially in late 70's early 80's.

Kanaloa · 19/01/2022 15:51

Of course not a mobile phone but wouldn’t you go straight to a phone box and call the police immediately?

ENoeuf · 19/01/2022 16:08

I’ve always felt there is something odd about the truck drivers. I don’t know why but radioing out there’s a vulnerable person wouldn’t be my first thought.

Shapiro · 19/01/2022 18:32

[quote Kanaloa]@Shapiro

I saw that storyline on criminal minds I think. I remember the parents had sort of smashed up the bedroom to make it appear the child had been kidnapped by a stranger, but actually it was the older brother who was frustrated at his brother playing with his toys and breaking them.[/quote]
Thank you. That was the one! Sad and tragic storyline.

peaceanddove · 19/01/2022 18:49

It is very obvious to me that JonBenet was killed accidentally by a family member, and then they did the best to cover it up with the faux ransom letter. The letter is so transparently fake as to be laughable - clearly written by her panicking parents.

I expect the officers investigating her death know this too and are incredibly frustrated that they just can't prove it.

Joined4this · 19/01/2022 19:56

There was one in the US a girl suddenly got a call and left work, crashed her car and disappeared then on the anniversary some creepy guy posted videos about her on YouTube. I’ve forgotten any relevant details though but I watched it on YouTube and it was terrifying.

ENoeuf · 19/01/2022 22:27

It’s awful I can’t imagine how stressful life would be waiting for news every day. Imagine not knowing who the call was from and guessing at what happened.

dayswithaY · 19/01/2022 22:47

Joined4this the case you refer to is Maura Murray and that is one, deep rabbit hole. There are hundreds of forums and websites about her and a really long running podcast called "Finding Maura Murray".

You can lose hours on this.

XelaM · 19/01/2022 23:40

@dayswithaY Maura Murray is also such an odd case. I know very little about it, it seems she was an adult who appeared to want to disappear at least for awhile. The fact that she completely disappeared within the span of less than 10 minutes (between the time she was last seen on the scene of the accident and the time the police arrived) is totally bizarre, but I think one of the theories is that she got into another car. There was something troubling that girl for sure. Her boyfriend didn't seem a prize either

dayswithaY · 20/01/2022 00:10

Most people believe she ran off into the woods before the police arrived to avoid a drink driving charge,and succumbed to the elements. But no trace of her has been found.

Some people think the police were involved in foul play, another theory surrounds a group of young men who worked in a nearby ski resort who all left town quickly after her disappearance.

She was last seen at the side of the road after telling a local man that she had phoned for help. He knew there was no phone signal there so she couldn't have called anyone.

XelaM · 20/01/2022 00:22

@dayswithaY I was also thinking that maybe the police were involved in this! The "ran into the woods" theory seems incompatible with her body never having been recovered and the dogs losing scent of her near the scene. It's also odd that she clearly planned to run away at least for awhile.

Shapiro · 20/01/2022 11:05

I think she had planned to run away but didn’t have anything properly set up and was just going to see where she ended up. A kind of road trip to find herself that went horribly wrong after she had the accident and found she couldn’t continue alone and most likely accepted a lift from someone just so that she could kee I’m moving and not be hindered by the car accident.

That Good Samaritan turned out to be someone who may have had evil intent or has aided and abetted her in her starting a new anonymous life. Most likely the evil intent.

XelaM · 20/01/2022 13:23

@Shapiro Yes, I think the "good samaritan" theory is the most plausible, although who knows.

Still find the Asha Degree case the most bizarre and inexplicable. It just doesn't make sense that she would leave the house in these circumstances.

Shapiro · 20/01/2022 13:36

This is from a reddit user and makes the most sense to me -

My theory on this case is probably quite unpopular; I don't think Asha was groomed and I think there's a good chance she wasn't even abducted. I also think that the buried bookbag could be a major red herring in this case.

My issues with the "groomed and abducted" theory are as follows:

Who could have groomed her? She didn't have internet access so it must have been an adult with face-to-face, one-to-one access to Asha. From what we know of Asha's life (or most 9 year olds tbf) that greatly narrows down the possibilities; family member, teacher, sports coach, maybe somebody at the church, maybe a friend's parent? I know the police aren't always geniuses but I don't think it would have been difficult for them in this case to come up with a very short list of potential suspects who may have had that kind of access to Asha. You can then narrow it down even further by establishing alibis for the night Asha went missing. We have to assume that the police have done this and (as far as we know) have not come up with anything to link anybody close to Asha to her disappearance.

The method of this supposed abduction seems "off" too. How many child abductors have you heard of who were able to persuade a young child to leave their home and meet them outside at 3am? Maybe with teenagers but a 9 year old? I've never heard of it. There's always going to be an element of risk when abducting a child but that seems too risky to me. All it takes is for one of her parents, or her brother, to hear her trying to leave the house and the game is up. What if she went to sleep and missed the "meeting time"? What if she changed her mind (quite possible after giving her more time to think things through, seeing the storm outside etc)? It just doesn't fit the usual M.O. for child abduction cases IMO, too many risks.

If the abductor WAS able to persuade her to leave her house at 3am in a storm, why was she spotted at the side of a highway over a mile away? The abductor would have wanted Asha in his car ASAP after she left her home, at most he would have made her meet him at the end of her street, not a mile away. The longer a child is walking about in the middle of the night, the more chance there is of her being seen, especially on a highway (which is exactly what happened). Also, how can you trust a 9 year old to make her way, in the middle of the night, to a meeting point over a mile away? It doesn't make sense, again far too risky.

Some have theorised that she may have met her abductor nearer to her home and then escaped and ran away. How would she have escaped? Get a 9 year old child in your car, lock the doors and start driving - what can they do to escape? Why would Asha have seemingly stopped running from her abductor to have some candy in a shed? Are we also then to assume that the abductor tracked Asha down in the woods by the highway (at 4am in a storm no less), presumably killed her and got home for his breakfast without anybody seeing anything or becoming suspicious? I just don't buy it.

So what do I think happened? I think Asha left her house that night under her own steam. We'll probably never know why but I suspect she was worried about going to school (interesting to note that she ran away on a Sunday evening, just before school on the Monday morning). Maybe she was more affected by the basketball game than her parents thought (maybe her teammates had blamed her for the loss afterwards, she was worried about getting bullied because of it, maybe she was just embarrassed about it etc). As I say, we'll probably never know her reasons but it seems to me that (for whatever reason), she desperately didn't want to go to school on Monday morning. That would explain why, in her mind, she HAD to leave that night despite the awful weather conditions.

After she left the house and ran away, I think one of two things could have happened to her:

  1. A random predator saw her by the highway and abducted her. The abduction was a complete fluke, the perp had no connection to her whatsoever and just happened to see her that night as he was driving by. The ultimate "wrong place, wrong time" scenario. If he had no connection to Asha and there were no witnesses, it's basically an unsolvable crime. Possible but what are the odds?

  2. She died of exposure somewhere in those woods and her body has never been found. There was no abduction. She ran away from home, she was under-dressed (didn't even have a coat on), it was February, cold, poor weather conditions...

The issue with scenario 2 is the bookbag. Everyone assumes she was abducted because the bookbag was found 26 miles away buried in a plastic bag. The assumption is that the abductor buried the bag but that is not the only possibility here. Somebody (with no connection to the case at all) may have found and taken the bag, at some point realised it belonged to the missing girl in the news, didn't want to get involved with the police (out of fear of being falsely implicated probably) and decided to dispose of the bag without telling anyone. It's possible, right? And if that is the case, it opens up the possibility that there was no abduction at all. One thing about the bookbag that bugs me - this supposed abductor can abduct a child without leaving a trace, dispose of the body without it ever being found and yet cannot properly dispose of a bookbag? I personally wouldn't be surpised at all if the buried bookbag was a red herring and Asha simply ran away and died of exposure. Some elaborate scenario involving someone grooming and arranging to meet a child at 3am a mile away (or her potentially escaping at some point) just doesn't seem likely to me, I think there are simpler possible explanations here.

ENoeuf · 20/01/2022 18:02

The Asha case is so sad. I can’t understand the backpack (forgot it was buried) although it may have been flung out in a bin bag and then got ‘buried’ by undergrowth etc.
maybe we need an unsolved mysteries thread.

Kanaloa · 20/01/2022 18:50

@ENoeuf

There are some! That’s where I first saw the Asha case mentioned. Usually about ‘unsolved mysteries’ and even though they’re old they’re well worth a read if you’re an insomniac like me! Very interesting.

Agree a new one would be good as well.

Agree the Asha case is insane. Firstly that she would leave the house without being seen or noticed, then that she would disappear completely. Surely a small girl doesn’t run away in the middle of the night, wouldn’t the fear be overwhelming? But I also think it’s very unlikely that a person grooming a small girl would encourage that girl to meet them at some other location in the dead of night. Of course very possible that she left to run away/maybe go to a friend or relative out of some desperate worry she had (we know how children can make a small worry into a huge one and think it’s not fixable) and then was picked up by either a stranger or a known person with bad intentions.

I suppose the difficulty is that humans are so so complex. Without the person sitting in front of you it’s impossible to understand why they made the (seemingly inexplicable) choices they did. Even if we look at our own lives I bet some choices I’ve made in my life would seen totally random and unexplainable if I then had disappeared.

Whydoyoucareaboutthis · 20/01/2022 20:12

Regards Asha and the lack of reporting, I've been reading about the phenomenon where if there are lots of witnesses the lesser chance someone will notify authorities. Its the idea that everyone assumes someone else has

peaceanddove · 20/01/2022 20:34

@Whydoyoucareaboutthis

Regards Asha and the lack of reporting, I've been reading about the phenomenon where if there are lots of witnesses the lesser chance someone will notify authorities. Its the idea that everyone assumes someone else has
Yes, it's a well known phenomena it's called Diffusion of Responsibilty.
LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 20/01/2022 20:50

[quote XelaM]@dayswithaY Maura Murray is also such an odd case. I know very little about it, it seems she was an adult who appeared to want to disappear at least for awhile. The fact that she completely disappeared within the span of less than 10 minutes (between the time she was last seen on the scene of the accident and the time the police arrived) is totally bizarre, but I think one of the theories is that she got into another car. There was something troubling that girl for sure. Her boyfriend didn't seem a prize either[/quote]
Didn't she tell people she was going away for a funeral/there had been a death in the family but turns out there hadn't been? All very strange and potentially a really unfortunate encounter

dayswithaY · 20/01/2022 21:17

Maura was a nursing student who had been in trouble for stealing credit cards and had recently crashed both her car and her Dad's. She was in a turbulent on off relationship with her fiancé Bill and rumoured to be having an affair with sports coach at her College, so a messy situation. She took a call allegedly from her sister which upset her greatly, some people have theorised this was fake and provided her with an excuse to get away.

She phoned her tutors and lied about a death in the family in order to get out of her lectures, bought a load of alcohol and set off in her damaged, clapped out car. She told no one where she was going or when she would return. Her car hit a snow bank on a deserted road where a local bus driver saw her and asked if she needed help, she lied and said she had phoned roadside recovery. When the police arrived, Maura was gone and all her possessions (including opened alcohol) were left behind.

So yes, I imagine she wanted some breathing space and time out but was poorly equipped for driving on rural roads at night. Her father is still actively searching for leads and regularly visits the town she vanished from.

Excellent points made about Asha, but I still can't fathom why there was a photo of an unknown little girl found among her things in the shed she visited, or how the book bag ended up in undergrowth in the opposite direction to where she had been last seen. Why wouldn't someone burn it or throw it in a river, why wrap it in a bin liner first?

WhoAre · 20/01/2022 21:52

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

SirVixofVixHall · 21/01/2022 09:44

@KatherineJaneway

I would assume that places like Kings Cross (was not a nice place when Andrew went missing) would be magnets for those who want to prey on the vulnerable.
I lived a few hundred yards away at the time, there was a huge amount of construction work happening just behind and adjacent to the station, in the daytime it was very busy and didn’t feel any more unsafe than any other major central London road. I walked through where he is last pictured every day with my toddler. There were always a lot of people around and at that time the prostitution had moved slightly away from the area very close to the station, and up towards Camden. There were areas locally that were empty after dark apart from cars, but the front of the concourse was bustling well into the evening. I am am surprised that there were no other images of him, there were cameras on the Euston Road. It is really strange.
ENoeuf · 21/01/2022 10:08

He was seen in Pizza Hut wasn’t he? I reckon it was opportunistic. I remembered the other day two friends of mine skipping school to go to London for something that been told they couldn’t do. Probably seen alone and someone tricked him.