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New development on missing Andrew Gosden case.

218 replies

ClaraThePigeon · 11/01/2022 14:06

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-59952786

I hope that this latest development gives that poor boy's family answers, terrible as they may be. I can't imagine the hell they've had to live with every day since his disappearance.

OP posts:
Purpleraspberry · 17/01/2022 18:36

I only read about the Asha Degree case last year after seeing an article on facebook about it. A very bizarre case! My thoughts when reading it was someone at school, perhaps a teacher got her to meet them and killed her (I hope not). I also did wonder if one of the motorists might have had something to do with it, however that doesn't explain why she left her house in the middle of the night with a bag.. Her poor family must be so tormented, I don't know how I'd cope if any of my children vanished without explanation. It is the stuff of nightmares Sad . Even if God forbid, they found a body which was confirmed to be her, it is an answer and if she is dead, there is no more cruel false hope.

Re Andrew Gosden, I hope there is an answer here too. Again, nobody knows why he left his parents house, or why he travelled to London which is very strange. The internet was around then so he may have been groomed online. I hope his parents get their answers.

Thoosa · 18/01/2022 00:39

And yes, just HOW did these men end up with images of him (do we have a source for that? I'll google).

Well the obvious inference from the limited police statement is that police suspect they TOOK indecent images of him, which coupled with the other charge paints a stomach turning picture of potentially kidnap, sexual abuse and photographs taken. Horrible. Just the worst case scenario. Because he hasn’t been seen since, either.

I hope it is inaccurate that the family haven’t been told more than the contents of the police statement. If they aren’t getting top notch police liaison support, someone isn’t doing their job acceptably.

What an awful, unconfirmed update for those who lived him to grapple with. Reminiscent of the unconfirmed pronouncements the German police made about MM. The poor parents.

KatherineJaneway · 18/01/2022 05:15

What an awful, unconfirmed update for those who lived him to grapple with. Reminiscent of the unconfirmed pronouncements the German police made about MM. The poor parents.

To be fair the Police could have told Kate and Jerry more than they released in the statement.

dayswithaY · 18/01/2022 16:01

I've read a lot about Asha Degree, it is a puzzle. She was only 9, no internet or mobile phone access, tight knit family. My personal feeling is that something happened at a slumber party she attended on the Saturday before. Some of the belongings that the FBI have asked people to identify include a New Kids On The Block t-shirt, way too big for Asha. I think one of the older girls at this party might know something.

The FBI have not stated where or how the t-shirt was found, they are just asking if anyone can identify it. They also found a photograph of a younger girl that, incredibly no one in the entire USA has identified. This leads people to believe Asha was groomed by someone pretending to be this other girl (pen pal etc).

There are a few things a bit off with the parents' timeline that night, her book bag was found dumped in a completely different area to where she was last seen. Nothing makes sense.

ENoeuf · 18/01/2022 17:57

It is a weird one, I cannot imagine any of my teens even now choosing to leave home in the middle of the night.

XelaM · 18/01/2022 18:21

And if the sightings on the motorway were correct, she didn't leave to actually meet anyone near her house. She was walking alone along a motorway in the middle of the night and in heavy rain. How can any of this be explained

ENoeuf · 18/01/2022 18:25

I always wondered if she was sleep walking. I had one that would appear in unusual places (in the house though). With Andrew being older the idea of running away by choice (or at least going off for an experience) was always possible but at 9 I find it really hard to believe she could be enticed to leave in the middle of the night.

KatherineJaneway · 18/01/2022 18:47

I would assume that places like Kings Cross (was not a nice place when Andrew went missing) would be magnets for those who want to prey on the vulnerable.

ENoeuf · 18/01/2022 19:18

Definitely. I was approached by a strange man who appeared to think I was a sex worker many years ago. It wasn’t a nice place to loiter.

Whydoyoucareaboutthis · 18/01/2022 19:40

@ENoeuf

I always wondered if she was sleep walking. I had one that would appear in unusual places (in the house though). With Andrew being older the idea of running away by choice (or at least going off for an experience) was always possible but at 9 I find it really hard to believe she could be enticed to leave in the middle of the night.
But it appears she packed her book bag. This makes it appear planned but I agree with pp, even my teens are naturally not keen on going out in the dark.

Regards Andrew and running away, I read he took out money from a cash machine but left over £100 in cash at home. I can't see you would leave this if you were running away.

I do wonder why I am so interested, I hope its not ghoulish, it is more that I feel that there for the grace of God go I. And if I was in that situation I would want people to think about them. Even speculation would mean that they were not forgotten. I can't comprehend how the parents cope

ENoeuf · 18/01/2022 19:52

I think humans like to solve puzzles; we are parents or relatives or friends and can empathise; we want to know so we can add it to our don’t do that list etc etc. I never wonder in any gory detail about what happened , I wonder how or why they went missing. I can’t provide any other rationale for why it’s interesting.

XelaM · 18/01/2022 20:37

The Asha Degree case is the strangest missing person case I have ever heard of. There appears to be no plausible explanation for any of it, unless either the parents themselves were involved (but doesn't explain later highway sightings) and appears extremely unlikely in this case.

But in JonBenet Ramsey's case, I definitely think the family were involved. That ransom note was completely unbelievable.

Thoosa · 18/01/2022 20:52

@ENoeuf

I think humans like to solve puzzles; we are parents or relatives or friends and can empathise; we want to know so we can add it to our don’t do that list etc etc. I never wonder in any gory detail about what happened , I wonder how or why they went missing. I can’t provide any other rationale for why it’s interesting.
I think we evolved to live in tribes of 300 (or some such figure), so when someone’s case or plight is publicised, and we become familiar with their face and story, we react as though it’s one of our tribe or village on some level.

Also I seem to remember there are sociological theories about what we learn from crime and deviance and how that helps society. Can’t remember the details now (unhelpful of me), but I imagine it all adds up to group wisdom, just as the evolutionarily theory is about group survival.

Then there’s just plain empathy, which probably goes into both the above. I don’t think it’s ghoulish to want resolution, to hope for the best and to wonder how things like this can happen in the midst of crowds.

ENoeuf · 18/01/2022 21:11

That is interesting and probably more evidence based than my guesswork! I think it’s more ghoulish (although loads of people do it and they sell books about it so still within ‘normal’ to read about the actual acts of crimes - all the misery lit fiction and details of injuries etc.

KloppsTeeth · 19/01/2022 00:30

I enjoy Websleuths for these cases. I don’t go on a lot, but it is fascinating place to read. I’m curious about these cases because they are such a mystery.

dayswithaY · 19/01/2022 07:32

I think women in particular are drawn to true crime as a way of self defence. The more cases you read about, the more you are aware of the dangers out there and you can - in theory - protect yourself better. I have definitely become more aware of the world around me since reading about true crime. I'm also aware that murderers do not always present as monsters, most are charming or very ordinary.

None of this would have helped Andrew Gosden or Asha Degree, they were children and most likely victims of a sophisticated and drawn out grooming process.

Someone once said that when children leave home like this, they are either running away from something or running towards someone.

Assuming in both these cases the parents are innocent (and why would they both still be pushing hard to keep these cases in the spotlight if they weren't) then the answer lies outside the family.

JonBenet Ramsey's father lives a very quiet life and rarely speaks about his daughter's murder. OJ Simpson swore he would track down the murderer of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, then - nothing.

ENoeuf · 19/01/2022 08:19

I can’t imagine how painful it would be not to know what took your child away. Or whether they are alive. I saw today that Rikki Neaves’ killer is on trial - i read it and remembered his name from years ago and they’ve put a (then) 13 year old on trial now. Horrific.

ENoeuf · 19/01/2022 08:20

^alleged killer, sorry. I know we can’t discuss cases, just thinking of finding out what happened more widely.

XelaM · 19/01/2022 08:25

@dayswithaY "JonBenet Ramsey's father lives a very quiet life and rarely speaks about his daughter's murder. OJ Simpson swore he would track down the murderer of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, then - nothing"

That poor beautiful girl! There is no way that the ransom note was real and the family's behaviour was extremely suspicious. It was either the brother or the father in that case

dayswithaY · 19/01/2022 12:34

It's so strange because when JonBenet was murdered I just believed the family's story that she had been kidnapped. Fast forward 25 years and it's obvious Patsy wrote the ransom note and the perpetrator was a member of the family. Why would a kidnapper move their victim to the basement and kill them, why wouldn't you just snatch the child and get out quick? Sadly, there's a lot more to this story than we know, including money, power, fear. We will never see justice for JonBenet unless someone talks.

God bless the internet though, that must have made the guilty party nervous over the years.

BorderlineHappy · 19/01/2022 13:28

. .OJ Simpson swore he would track down the murderer of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, then - nothing".
@XelaM there's a theory I read somewhere,that IJ took the fall for one of his sons
The son also had form for being abusive.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 19/01/2022 14:01

But in JonBenet Ramsey's case, I definitely think the family were involved. That ransom note was completely unbelievable.

I agree. I saw a documentary about the case a couple of years ago. They went over the ransom demand in forensic detail. Especially the vocabulary of it.

Things like, 'get the money from your account.' A kidnapper would not have cared where the money came from.

The ransom demand was the same as a bonus that the father was due from work.

It was stated that the paper that the note was written on belonged to the mother i.e. a kidnapper would not have know where to find it.

The clincher ? For me, it was: how long would it have taken to write such a long rambling ransom note ? Kidnappers ransom demands are short and to the point. Would a kidnapper have sat in the house, using the mother's stationery, for ten minutes, writing that ransom demand ?

There is so much evidence and clues that the family are involved. To me, it's similar to the 'disappearance' of a child who vanished on a family holiday.

JonBenet Ramsay's brother, Burke, was annoyed with her for swiping some pineapple from the kitchen that was his share when the family returned to the house on Christmas Day. He hit her over the head with a torch/flashlight.

I don't think he meant to kill her but she either died or was unconscious.

The family may have then decided to cover up the crime and then the whole pantomime started.

There's footage of someone asking the Dad if he saw JonBenet after she died from strangulation. He smirks and says, 'looks that way to me.' Hmmm.

The fact that JonBenet was a participant in child beauty pageants, while it is a fact, is something of a red herring.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 19/01/2022 14:04

Fast forward 25 years and it's obvious Patsy wrote the ransom note and the perpetrator was a member of the family. Why would a kidnapper move their victim to the basement and kill them, why wouldn't you just snatch the child and get out quick? Sadly, there's a lot more to this story than we know, including money, power, fear. We will never see justice for JonBenet unless someone talks.

This^

I wonder if her brother, Burke, will tell his story one day ?

Money, power, fear..........loss of social status, shame. There's lots to consider when family are persons of interest and have the answers.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 19/01/2022 14:10

Kidnappers ransom demands are short and to the point. Would a kidnapper have sat in the house, using the mother's stationery, for ten minutes, writing that ransom demand ?

In fact, it would have taken 20 minutes to write that three page ransom demand.

It was carefully written, i.e. t's crossed and i's dotted.

Further to the vocabulary, it was relevant to the fathers level of further education and the industry he worked in.

Shapiro · 19/01/2022 14:36

Regarding the JonBenet case I watched a fictional crime tv show, can’t remember which one and a couple had two boys and appeared to be a lovely family.

The younger of the two boys was found dead in a playroom and the investigation eventually discovered that the parents had found out that the older brother had done killed his younger brother and they covered it up because in their grief stricken state they didn’t want to lose both their children if the older boy was taken away for murder.

It was then discussed that the older boy had no empathy and was probably a psychopath.

I wonder if JonBenet’s tries to cover for their son?

But wasn’t there evidence of a taser being used?

Another sad and mysterious case that we will probably never know the truth about.