Still can't quite believe the ambulance service said 'we can't help you' :-O

[mineofuselessinformation]

DC2 (young adult) woke me at 6.30 this morning in severe abdominal pain. I ran through the usual things: painkillers, constipation etc.
By 7.30 it had escalated (pain score 8), so I called 111. They advised that DC needed to have help: they would call back within the hour or send a non-urgent ambulance. Advised if pain worsened to call 999. Happy with that although not good to see DC so unwell.
30 mins later pain had increased - DC slapping themselves on the leg to try to distract from the pain and in clear distress, so called 999. Ran through symptoms with them, told them 111 had advised to call.
Their response after asking questions: 'we can't help you'.
Luckily 111 called back five minutes later so I told them what had happened. They sent an ambulance which attended. Advised to take DC straight to A&E as symptoms weren't giving a clear picture as to what was wrong, clearly needed to be seen, but not at death's door just yet. (I don't have an issue with this but did tell them I was concerned at driving quite a distance with someone so unwell in the car in my own.)
We duly attended and the upshot was that DC has what used to be called a 'grumbling appendix'. We were told symptoms may well recur and to attend A&E if they do. (By this point the pain had settled a lot due to codeine.)

I've never experienced this before - the 999 call handler had no way of knowing nothing serious was wrong with DC, yet still gave me a flat no - and I was told to ring by 111. (And DC could have had a ruptured appendix, given their pain and symptoms.)
I don't know why I'm posting except to get it off my chest, but I am wondering if the call handler needs to have a bit more training?

Sounds horrendous. You poor things.
You need to tell people, lots of people both for your own sake to get it off your chest and to make people aware what's going on. And one of those people should be your MP. Whereabouts are you in the UK if you are willing to say roughly?

Wonder if your health board is the same as mine initials AB

That sounds scary, I’m sorry.

I think it’s probably that there aren’t nearly enough ambulances due to nhs staff absence, and I guess 111 can triage from a more informed viewpoint than the operator. I’m guessing but suspect that’s it.

@SoapyWit East Anglia.
I agree that I should say something.DC's life could have been in danger. Who knows how many other poor buggers got left with no help?

I don't think I would have called 999 I would have taken him to a&e myself. Was this not an option for you?

Nhs sadly is on its knees

Severity of pain doesn't equal severity of the issue unfortunately
Abdo pain isn't a priority and is usually a low grade (clinician call back/non emergency ambulance within a few hours)
There aren't enough ambulances and staff and they have to prioritise for life threatening emergencies, it's better to use own transport if you can

Sorry if that sounds harsh but that's the reality at the minute, better to take them than have to wait 2-4hrs for an ambulance

Why didn't you go to A&E by car or cab?

Why would you not just get in the car and go to A&E when your young adult DC's pain score hit 8, for heaven's sake?

I rang an ambulance for chest pain?heart attack a few weeks back (in my professional capacity)... 2hrs later it arrived. That's how stretched the ambulance service is at the moment having to prioritise the major priority list. I wouldn't like to be doing there job to be honest, I think it is massively scary for us and must be soul destroying for them

Its an awful state at the moment with covid. i had to drive a staff member having a heart attack to hospital last week as no ambulances were available for "several hours". luckily they survived.

This is a symptom of a fucked nhs

I’m sorry this happened to you

To be fair it doesn't sound overly like an ambulance issue, I'd probably have driven.

Even I, a total layperson, was thinking 'appendix' as I read the start of your post. Everyone knows how dangerous a ruptured appendix can be. That's awful.

I hope either your son's symptoms settle down or he can get his appendix taken out quickly.

For those asking, it's over 30 minutes drive. Having been advised to do it, I did. But I think anyone in my position would have felt concerned about driving someone clearly in extreme pain, alone (so no-one to help) and not knowing if there could be a life-threatening emergency on the way.

For instance you've got ten ambulances

You have
5 people with chest pain
5 unconscious
2 fitting
1 not breathing
1 stabbing

You're still 4 ambulances short. Whilst you send the 10 ambulances, and have 4 waiting (and who do you pick to wait?) another 10 calls come in

5 with breathing issues
2 fitting
2 stabbing
1 not breathing

We haven't even got to the cut to arm, abdo pain, fallen over, banged head, swallowed medication... they are still somewhere down the list. And then another 10 priority calls come in... this is why sometimes people who have fallen are waiting for 3/4/5hrs

I had appendicitis last year, the pain is horrific but DH took me in the car, it meant I got seen much quicker as we’d have been waiting for ages. Same last weekend when DH fainted and split his head open, I drove him to A&E and he was seen within an hour of it happening. Ambulances are under so much pressure I think if you can possibly get there under your own steam, you will access the care you need so much faster.

I know it may feel like it but it really isn't the call handler's fault personally. 111 and 999 call handlers read from the same script, it is literally ALL scripted. The only difference between 111 and 999 is that 111 take the patient details, location etc before starting the triage, whereas 999 triage/assess, reach the dispotion and THEN take the patient details so that urgent care time is not wasted and the most appropriate outcome is reached ASAP.

I can't imagine they explicitly said "we can't help you" as that is definitely not part of the script - maybe it was that the disposition they reached based on the information you gave them was the same disposition that 111 reached in your initial call? (If they quite literally said the words "we can't help you" then yes, that is wrong, and if you are unhappy I would advise you contact the ambulance service's Patient Experience team who will start an investigation by listening into the call and escalating any & all feedback to the call handler and their line manager).

I'm sorry to hear that DC was in so much pain and I really hope they feel better soon. It would be interesting to know the context/any more info of the conversation to be able to advise. I work very closely with 999/111 control room and frontline NHS care xx

@StormyTeacups, I'm pleased for you that you can say what you did with such confidence. Sincerely, I hope you never find yourself in the position you did this morning.

999 call takers ( police, ambulance and fire) triage by following a script/ flowchart....
If the answers take them in a certain direction, you get a certain response.
Not personal, rarely discretional.
Use your own transport when possible, at the moment fully staffed ambulances are like gold dust, not the services fault... decades of underfunding and too many managers....

'I did'

Complaining to your MP is unlikely to do much. This is going to be quite normal over the next few weeks as omicron takes hold. The priority is going to end up going to category 1 calls and it doesn’t sound like your DS was category 1.

I’m more surprised that 111 managed to get you an ambulance in a reasonable time, unless it was just a paramedic.

Hope your DS is doing OK.

I also don't understand why you didn't just take them to a and e yourself. You didn't need an ambulance at that point.

It is horrendous

Wales is having a major ambulance crisis and Scotland had troops driving ambulances since September

Ah, bugger, name-change fail. Oh well, thanks app.