Still can't quite believe the ambulance service said 'we can't help you' :-O

[mineofuselessinformation]

DC2 (young adult) woke me at 6.30 this morning in severe abdominal pain. I ran through the usual things: painkillers, constipation etc.
By 7.30 it had escalated (pain score 8), so I called 111. They advised that DC needed to have help: they would call back within the hour or send a non-urgent ambulance. Advised if pain worsened to call 999. Happy with that although not good to see DC so unwell.
30 mins later pain had increased - DC slapping themselves on the leg to try to distract from the pain and in clear distress, so called 999. Ran through symptoms with them, told them 111 had advised to call.
Their response after asking questions: 'we can't help you'.
Luckily 111 called back five minutes later so I told them what had happened. They sent an ambulance which attended. Advised to take DC straight to A&E as symptoms weren't giving a clear picture as to what was wrong, clearly needed to be seen, but not at death's door just yet. (I don't have an issue with this but did tell them I was concerned at driving quite a distance with someone so unwell in the car in my own.)
We duly attended and the upshot was that DC has what used to be called a 'grumbling appendix'. We were told symptoms may well recur and to attend A&E if they do. (By this point the pain had settled a lot due to codeine.)

I've never experienced this before - the 999 call handler had no way of knowing nothing serious was wrong with DC, yet still gave me a flat no - and I was told to ring by 111. (And DC could have had a ruptured appendix, given their pain and symptoms.)
I don't know why I'm posting except to get it off my chest, but I am wondering if the call handler needs to have a bit more training?

Sorry OP I think you should have driven as well.

[quote mineofuselessinformation]@MissLucyEyelesbarrow, I appreciate your response, but as a layperson I didn't know the likelihood of a rupture, but do know how dangerous it can be, so I wasn't able to make that judgement, and no-one guided me on it.[/quote]
I thought you said he had been assessed by an ambulance crew? Surely that was enough guidance?

Basically, you had a very quick response and assessment by an expert in urgent care (paramedic), who determined that your DS did not need an ambulance transfer, and you are still whinging about how awful the ambulance service is. Your thread title is misleading - the ambulance service did not refuse to help you - they refused to send a 999 ambulance but did send a more appropriate response.

One day, someone you love may be having a cardiac arrest or a massive haemorrhage and need life-saving intervention within minutes. You will be bloody glad that the nearest ambulance isn't busy taxi-ing a young man with a non life-threatening condition to hospital.

I was in A & E on Friday evening (South Wales) and counted 9 ambulances waiting outside. There just aren't enough to go around at the moment. It's frightening.

Abdominal pain rarely results in a high priority in the ambulance triage system. I think the call handler was being honest and rather than trying to waste your time thinking an ambulance would be assigned. I used to do the same job many years ago and it's a terrible, high stress job. I think it permenantly damaged my hearing. We were turning people away then and I was in the job when 111 came in, massive problem was 111 would they would request ambulances for calls that would not have met the requirements for an ambulance under the triage system used for 999. Wasn't helpful.

Very relieved to escape and my full sympathy to those still doing the job, it was dire 10 years ago and I can only imagine how few resources they have now, combined with all the demands put on them.

If people want ambulances to be available for non-immediately life threatening calls then we need to pay the extra tax to support excess capacity in the system. Not run it on a threadbare budget for years with no flex in the system at all.

If any call handlers or ambulance crew are reading, I salute you with my slice of cake! It's a shit job and you don't get the appreciate you deserve.

@Fretfulmum, the 999 call handler gave me no advice whatsoever. If they had, I would have acted on it.

How did you get home?

You've had a taste of the state of things OP. No the call handler doesn't need more training. You just took something for granted that doesnt work anymore. I'd practise the route to hospital in case is a future hospital need.

@mineofuselessinformation

For those asking, it's over 30 minutes drive. Having been advised to do it, I did. But I think anyone in my position would have felt concerned about driving someone clearly in extreme pain, alone (so no-one to help) and not knowing if there could be a life-threatening emergency on the way.

Am I the only one seeing a parellel with someone driving their heavily pregnant partner to hospital after labour starts?

I'm sorry you went through it, it must have been frightening. But as others have said, surely you've seen on the news how much the ambulance service and similar are struggling? There are so many things above severe abdominal pain on their priority list, I'm not surprised 999 weren't able to send you an ambulance.

My young adult daughter was suffering with a ruptured brain tumour that caused meningitis and at a pain level of 10/10 literally could not move because of the head pain, ambulance service said there were more serious people than her and I had to take her to A and E myself.

I would have driven or got a taxi. When my DS was having an asthma attack I drove, because the time before I waited over 30 minutes for it to arrive.

the 999 call handler had no way of knowing nothing serious was wrong with DC, yet still gave me a flat no - and I was told to ring by 111

111 is the number to call to get medical assessment by phone. If you were unsure about driving your DC to hospital, then 111 would be the best number to call to get advice about what to do.

999 is for immediately life threatening emergencies. The first two questions - is the patient breathing? Are they awake? show the level of severity.

It's not to say your DC wasn't unwell, but it wasn't immediately life threatening.

999 is not there as a taxi service. Yes driving an unwell person to hospital is very stressful, but the ambulance service can't despatch ambulances to everyone who lives more than 20 minutes drive from a hospital!

It doesn’t sound great. But there are not enough ambulances to go around. Poor ambulance handler, must be a horrendous job at the moment. I don’t know what they’re supposed to do but ultimately you did have another option to get there, and 111 were able to dispatch an ambulance.

It sounds awful but if it’s your situation vs someone bleeding to death or having a heart attack/needing CPR then they would have to take precedence wouldn’t they.

It is scary though.

I understand you were worried something may happen on the way but something also may have happened while you were sat at home waiting hours for the ambulance. Unless someone is physically incapable of moving or moving them may cause further injury I always go for the driving them to hospital option.

We drove past a gentleman who was lying on the pavement this weekend. We stopped and ran back. In the meantime a couple of other people had also stopped.
The gentleman was conscious, trying to get up, had some minor facial injuries. One passerby was trying to call and ambulance and was getting really cross that they were refusing to send an ambulance.
The gentleman kept saying he'd slipped and simply wanted to go home. I tried telling the man on the phone that even if he got an ambulance the man who'd fallen was trying to head home and would refuse one and since he was waving all four limbs around and already moving I doubted anything was broken. I got told to shut up.
So yes people have an unrealistic idea of what ambulances are for.

My relative almost died after his appendix was missed at two GP appointments (pre Covid) and he was given painkillers.

Luckily on the third visit he was told to go to hospital where they left him another 36 hours before operating, by which time it had burst, he was septic and part of his bowel had died. He was lucky to survive.

He was driven to the hospital - it wasn't an ambulance job despite him being in severe pain for about four days, he simply didn't need an ambulance.

I also agree the advice was correct. It was entirely reasonable to expect you to get him there, especially given the pressures the ambulance service is under and the fact you had transport.

You need to be at serious risk of imminent death at the moment to get an ambulance - otherwise you're at the back of the queue.

Really hope he's ok, if he has more episodes of pain please do drive him to A&E.

OP, if you're genuinely rural, worried about having to stop in an unidentifiable location, look up "what three words". Its an extremely useful location identifier system.

The problem with smbulances is not new, it is not only dur to covid. They do not have enough of yhem. And then, they are parked in the hospital till a bed is found for the patient. You can see 4-6 ambulances parked in A&E while people with broken limbs are wsiting for them!
Anyone finding themselves in need of A&E that can possibly get themselves there, just do it!
Trust me, been there, got the tshirt, and thanks goodness did not wait for these guys to get me! Otherwise, I would not be here.

????There are severe ambulance shortages , partly because covid has reduced staff numbers in hospitals. Ambulances arrive with patience needing admission, and can't discharge them to the hospital because the hospital can't process them dues to understaffing and shortages of beds. The result is queues of ambulances holding patients outside hospitals, unable to attend new calls because they still have patients on board. In the BBC news the other day, they reported a FOUR HOUR delay in getting patients out of ambulances parked outside Aand E.

  I'm very sorry for  OP and her son but amazed more people are unaware of this  frequently-reported news item.

@mineofuselessinformation

For those asking, it's over 30 minutes drive. Having been advised to do it, I did. But I think anyone in my position would have felt concerned about driving someone clearly in extreme pain, alone (so no-one to help) and not knowing if there could be a life-threatening emergency on the way.

I would have taken them in by car at 6:30. It’s still a 30 minute drive whether you’re in an ambulance or not.

@livelyliz, I'm very sorry to read that you were in that situation.

You're only 30 minutes from the hospital. I like others are wondering why you expected an ambulance. Your child isn't 'clearly very unwell' either - they had some stomach pain and aren't being given ongoing treatment IIRC. Ambulances are for people who are so unwell that there's no other option.

where I would have had no clue how to describe exactly where we were

I am also rural. Others have already signposted 'what three words' so I won't beyond saying it's also super useful for navigating in areas where a postcode can cover a mile or more. But I also suggest downloading an app that will give you an OS grid reference. There are lots. I agree: being able to communicate your position clearly in rural nowhere is potentially lifesaving.

Sorry I think you should have driven too. The ambulance service is so stretched at the moment, they don’t need to be wasting resources driving a non-urgent case to A&E when you had a car and could easily have driven.

It’s well known and documented that currently the ambulance service is on its knees.

You can drive and have access to a vehicle…in your position I would have just bundled my child in the car to go to hospital. I think an ambulance is not necessary.

I say this as someone who drove myself to hospital with acute appendicitis which was surgically removed several hours later and was on the brink of rupture.

@Verbena87 the opposite. 111 triage from a completely different direction and ambulances get dispatched incorrectly all the time.

If 999 couldn't dispatch an ambulance it's because there wasn't one to send as it wasn't an emergency. You could have put them in a car and driven.

999 / ambulances are for life threatening emergencies like a seizeure. Heart attacks or a stroke. I know it's distressing. I know it's sad and hard. But you could have driven them yourself.

My sister and I both had appendicitis when we were children and both times my DM drove us which was around a 40-45 minute drive. I don't think it ever crossed her mind to call an ambulance.

I'm sorry OP, ambulances are for life or death situations and this wasn't one of those.