Still can't quite believe the ambulance service said 'we can't help you' :-O

[mineofuselessinformation]

DC2 (young adult) woke me at 6.30 this morning in severe abdominal pain. I ran through the usual things: painkillers, constipation etc.
By 7.30 it had escalated (pain score 8), so I called 111. They advised that DC needed to have help: they would call back within the hour or send a non-urgent ambulance. Advised if pain worsened to call 999. Happy with that although not good to see DC so unwell.
30 mins later pain had increased - DC slapping themselves on the leg to try to distract from the pain and in clear distress, so called 999. Ran through symptoms with them, told them 111 had advised to call.
Their response after asking questions: 'we can't help you'.
Luckily 111 called back five minutes later so I told them what had happened. They sent an ambulance which attended. Advised to take DC straight to A&E as symptoms weren't giving a clear picture as to what was wrong, clearly needed to be seen, but not at death's door just yet. (I don't have an issue with this but did tell them I was concerned at driving quite a distance with someone so unwell in the car in my own.)
We duly attended and the upshot was that DC has what used to be called a 'grumbling appendix'. We were told symptoms may well recur and to attend A&E if they do. (By this point the pain had settled a lot due to codeine.)

I've never experienced this before - the 999 call handler had no way of knowing nothing serious was wrong with DC, yet still gave me a flat no - and I was told to ring by 111. (And DC could have had a ruptured appendix, given their pain and symptoms.)
I don't know why I'm posting except to get it off my chest, but I am wondering if the call handler needs to have a bit more training?

@berberry

On MNs the advice is not to call an ambulance unless you are dead 🤔

Utter nonsense.

People are quoting the actual situations in which an ambulance should be called.

I posted the list from the NHS page about when to call an ambulance:

"Call 999 in a medical emergency. This is when someone is seriously ill or injured and their life is at risk."

"Medical emergencies can include:

loss of consciousness
an acute confused state
fits that are not stopping
chest pain
breathing difficulties
severe bleeding that cannot be stopped
severe allergic reactions
severe burns or scalds"

No one in this thread has said 999 shouldn't be called for the above, have they?

OP I understand that you were scared and hope your young adult DS is now reasonably comfortable.

Remember though that the people whose relatives had life threatening emergencies would also have been scared and not all of them will have had the same positive outcome.

When things settle, what I would take from this thread is to listen to the call handlers advice. I'd also download the what three words app to reassure you.

You said he was allowed home as the codeine worked @mineofuselessinformation

OP You said ‘ By this point the pain had settled a lot due to codeine.)’ …………..

That means ‘it settled with codeine, it doesnt matter when it was given, before or after attending to A&E ,

I would have driven them to A & E. Ambulances are for emergency situations when the person can't get to hospital another way as they can't be moved or they need treatment right there and then. They aren't for teenagers with stomach pain who could be driven to hospital. I've only phoned an ambulance once and by the time the ambulance came the person was dead. Ambulances would come quicker for emergencies if people used cars and taxis to get to hospitals when they could.

As others have said, ambulance services need to make difficult choices right now. Sadly this does carry some risk. If I was sick, and conscious, I’d either drive myself to hospital or get DH to do so.

I don't normally agree with all the "ambulances are reserved for the almost dead " brigade but seriously, appendicitis? Of course you drive yourself to a&e. Pandemic aside, no one in their right mind would call an ambulance for that (not to say it's not a medical emergency it just doesn't generally warrant an ambulance). And by the way, if they deteriorate whilst you are driving such that you have to stop he car and can't drive anymore that's the point you call for an ambulance, not just in case.

Much more funding is needed in the nhs and more ambulances are needed desperately, but not to take a teenager to hospital with suspected appendicitis when they have access to a car and a driving parent.

Glad your dc is on the mend though. I had a grumbling appendix throughout my teens and it still sometimes grumbles now (in my 40's). It can be agony.

Appendix is not an ambo job. Yes, it’s awful but it will not benefit from a paramedic, and due to the category it will be given you would get there considerably faster taking him yourself.

Ambo good if: they’re about to die, or need to be kept in one position. Anything else (especially now) you will be at the back of an unmanageable queue, and keep getting bumped.

@JohnHunter abdominal aortic aneurysm rupture? Can happen in Marfan's apparently, though most of their aortic aneurysms are thoracic, it's pretty rare.

You should have driven

For everyone saying severe abdominal pain is not an ambulance job. We called an ambulance at school for a child in severe pain, sweating and shaking. Couldn’t move.

The ambulance paramedics came very quickly & whisked them to the hospital immediately.The parents said later that they had been told that if this hadn’t happened, their child would have been at risk of sepsis and even death. It was a ruptured appendix.

@NinaDefoe That's a totally different scenario. The child was sweating and shaking in pain AT SCHOOL. OPs child was at home with transport readily available.

Sadly I think it would be because there is a shortage of ambulances available rather than not wanting to help.
They should have told you to drive to a and e yourself, rather than saying they couldn't help and that was it though.

I had to have a cat 1 ambulance called for me last winter.
Due to a 'major' incident at the time locally, where a number of ambulances were needed, there were severe delays when for emergency calls.
The gp surgery were really reluctant to let us leave and make our own way to hospital due to a very high heart attack risk. However, even they got to the point where they actually wrote us a letter for A&E to allow dh to take me there if the ambulance didn't arrive within the following few minutes.

If you're fucked, you need to get in to A&E via an ambulance stretcher or trolley, basically.

The check in person will see you pretty quickly in my experience, and if you are really struggling, even then the queue can be jumped if you make it known in entering.

Then the check in person will make a quick assessment and this then determines how quick triage see you. Triage then makes a more detailed assessment which determines how long you'll wait to see the people who,can treat you.

Arriving by ambulance doesn't always mean you jump the queue. You will still be triaged and have to wait your turn, in order to urgency. All it may mean is that, if less urgent, the ambulance crew is left waiting around longer too so out of action for longer than they ought to be in some cases.

Over recent years I've had to go in for heart and breathing related issues. Even going in myself without an ambulance has never led to a long wait - I've usually be whisked straight through to the resus bay very very quickly, even when the waiting room queue has said several hires,

I've explained what happened upthread ^^ @Abraxan, but it's a long thread so lots gets missed.

I had a pulmonary embolism and physically had to stand and queue to check in my details at reception with no medical staff present at all. Pre-pandemic. I was in a terrible state by the end of that.

@Abraxan

If you're fucked, you need to get in to A&E via an ambulance stretcher or trolley, basically.

The check in person will see you pretty quickly in my experience, and if you are really struggling, even then the queue can be jumped if you make it known in entering.

Then the check in person will make a quick assessment and this then determines how quick triage see you. Triage then makes a more detailed assessment which determines how long you'll wait to see the people who,can treat you.

Arriving by ambulance doesn't always mean you jump the queue. You will still be triaged and have to wait your turn, in order to urgency. All it may mean is that, if less urgent, the ambulance crew is left waiting around longer too so out of action for longer than they ought to be in some cases.

Over recent years I've had to go in for heart and breathing related issues. Even going in myself without an ambulance has never led to a long wait - I've usually be whisked straight through to the resus bay very very quickly, even when the waiting room queue has said several hires,

Exactly this - an ambulance doesn't make any difference. My DH drove me to a&e earlier this year. I had been seen and admitted within 20 minutes. So, actually I was treated sooner because we didn't have to wait for an ambulance.

DH had suspected appendicitis a few months ago. Got sent to the GP by 111 and GP sent him straight to hospital, she was so certain it was appendicitis. He went in a taxi. Agree that YABU to blame the ambulance service/call handler.

[quote Hercisback]@NinaDefoe That's a totally different scenario. The child was sweating and shaking in pain AT SCHOOL. OPs child was at home with transport readily available.[/quote]
Plenty of transport available in the school carpark.

Sadly I think it would be because there is a shortage of ambulances available rather than not wanting to help.

This

Ninadefoe

At school it's different.
Most of those cars won't be insured to carry a pupil to hospital.
Yes, people might be tempted and in most cases it would be fine. However, if accident happened or the child deteriorated en route, the staff carrying said child could be in an awful lot of trouble.

It's also a child and also not their parents making the decisions.

@NinaDefoe

The school followed their protocols - they’re not allowed to transport a pupil to hospital in their own vehicles. The paramedic meant it was good he was got to hospital fast due to possible sepsis. But it still didn’t need an ambulance because there’s nothing a paramedic could do to help him. Arrival at the ED by ambulance doesn’t mean you get seen quicker, you’re then triaged, working on a rough basis of ‘who’s in danger of dying quickest’ and down from there.