Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Still can't quite believe the ambulance service said 'we can't help you' :-O

346 replies

mineofuselessinformation · 20/12/2021 20:47

DC2 (young adult) woke me at 6.30 this morning in severe abdominal pain. I ran through the usual things: painkillers, constipation etc.
By 7.30 it had escalated (pain score 8), so I called 111. They advised that DC needed to have help: they would call back within the hour or send a non-urgent ambulance. Advised if pain worsened to call 999. Happy with that although not good to see DC so unwell.
30 mins later pain had increased - DC slapping themselves on the leg to try to distract from the pain and in clear distress, so called 999. Ran through symptoms with them, told them 111 had advised to call.
Their response after asking questions: 'we can't help you'.
Luckily 111 called back five minutes later so I told them what had happened. They sent an ambulance which attended. Advised to take DC straight to A&E as symptoms weren't giving a clear picture as to what was wrong, clearly needed to be seen, but not at death's door just yet. (I don't have an issue with this but did tell them I was concerned at driving quite a distance with someone so unwell in the car in my own.)
We duly attended and the upshot was that DC has what used to be called a 'grumbling appendix'. We were told symptoms may well recur and to attend A&E if they do. (By this point the pain had settled a lot due to codeine.)

I've never experienced this before - the 999 call handler had no way of knowing nothing serious was wrong with DC, yet still gave me a flat no - and I was told to ring by 111. (And DC could have had a ruptured appendix, given their pain and symptoms.)
I don't know why I'm posting except to get it off my chest, but I am wondering if the call handler needs to have a bit more training?

OP posts:
Rno3gfr · 21/12/2021 03:59

I called 111 recently at 1am for my dp with symptoms of sepsis. I was told it was extremely important to get him to hospital ASAP. We didn’t have a car at his point and I don’t drive anyway (also had a sleeping 2 year old in the house). Was told that there were no ambulances available for a while and dp needed seeing to immediately. The nearest hospital was 10 miles away. By chance, I managed to order a taxi from the nearest town. I had to stay home with ds and send dp in a taxi by himself as we didn’t have the money to pay for the taxi both there and back. I had to give the taxi driver instructions on how to get him into the hospital, as dp was delirious at this point. Luckily the kind taxi driver helped him into hospital. Luckily, it was just a severe infection, they kept him in for 2 nights but it didn’t progress into sepsis. If we hadn’t had the money for the taxi that night then I wonder what would have happened.

Stuffin · 21/12/2021 05:47

I am with a lot of PPs saying you should have driven there. You had a car. Yes you say you were panicking but you need to address that then as panicking does not equal an ambulance.

I have driven myself when I have had an accident which meant I needed A&E but not an ambulance. I was stressed, scared, alone and worried about the injury (not saying what it was as outing) but I still sorted myself out to calm down and drive.

Terribleluck · 21/12/2021 06:16

OP even with your update instill don't think you made the right call. Plus I still don't understand your codeine comments when I think it's not prescription only. Anywho, I've been in two ambulances in my while life. One I had a massive hemorrhage post C-section (it looked like out of a horror film, I was literally in a pool of my own blood) and two a moving vehicle hit me and I had multiple suspected fractures and internal bleeding, I was in shock state and still had to wait on the side of the road for two hours.

Lollyfalalalalalalalalaaahhhhh · 21/12/2021 06:32

Ambulance service here.
Previous posters are all correct that abdo pain is a green call, unless the person in pain faints/is becomes unconscious.
The truth is that pain does not mean proximity to death, and although its awful, it will fall down the priorities list and mean it takes 5 plus hours when the ambulance service in on level 4/5.
Then when they arrive at a and e they're block by 9 other ambulances in front of them.
At the moment in Wales, if there is any possible way you can get you loved one in a car. Then just drive.

It's really really not the call handlers fault or decision.

I hope your son is much better today Flowers

chopc · 21/12/2021 06:33

I am medical. I can imagine OP probably found her son's pain scary and didn't want to risk him collapsing in the journey - if he was in an ambulance they have means of dealing with it

(Sadly in this day and age in UK, better take to hospital yourself even if at death's door as the ambulance service is so poor due to staff shortages and being unable to offload in A&E)

TallulahsCurse · 21/12/2021 06:45

Having been there both with myself and both my children (I had emergency surgery later that night) I can definitely say it never once occurred to me to call 999. I drove my DCs to A&e.. at night in the dark and over half an hour away, and my DH drove me. You need to use some common sense OP.

willowtreeonthebank · 21/12/2021 06:55

111 would actually advise calling 999 for a paper cut.

@Bagamoyo1 Grin Accurate assessment.

I remember a man in his 20s called 111 after a heavy bench press session in the gym the day before, he thought he'd strained a muscle. 111 service assessment was the man had pain in his chest (unsurprsingly) and immediately requested an amublance be sent for a suspected heart attack.

This was the early days of 111 so I can only hope the system has improved, although it doesn't sound like it.

anon12345678901 · 21/12/2021 07:09

Pain is very low down on priorities for ambulances. You could have taken him and if he was in that much pain should have, regardless of the 30 minute drive. If you are so concerned by him being in pain, take him yourself. I've had the same thing with my child and grumbling appendix, never crossed my mind to call 999. I drove him myself. I did call an ambulance for a seizure however, as it was the first one and he wasn't coming round after it stopped.

TicTacHoh · 21/12/2021 07:17

999 made the correct assessment, they are massively stretched and pain isn't a high priority.

nadgersbadgers · 21/12/2021 07:52

@willowtreeonthebank it hasn't improved.

A cut finger would still trigger a cat 1 catastrophic haemorrhage. So would a simple nose bleed.

SpindleWhirling · 21/12/2021 08:07

Just to clarify something from upthread (I'd gone to bed) - yes I was in a life-threatening condition, yes I did have to wait standing up in a queue for reception, and no there weren't any medical personnel in the main reception area. This was pre-pandemic.

I wouldn't be able to do that ambulatory wait again, as I now can't stand that long, let alone with a pulmonary embolism and reduced lung function like that first time. I did eventually collapse, and was taken to 'Majors' and then the MAU. I'd wasted so much time in the reception area. It's a really horrible memory.

I'm glad other people have better hospitals with functioning A&Es. Ours has been rubbish for a long time - I think the last two inspections found it to be poor.

Covidtrap · 21/12/2021 08:09

If ur a and e was 30 mins away may of been quicker driving or cab how long was ur ambulance wait? Its tough when we have kids we worry. I dont think they are unreasonable though they have to prioritise calls unfortunately as are extremely busy atm. I understand though you where by yourself child is in agony panic mode kicks in. Hope your dc feels better soon OP

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/12/2021 08:10

@chopc

I am medical. I can imagine OP probably found her son's pain scary and didn't want to risk him collapsing in the journey - if he was in an ambulance they have means of dealing with it

(Sadly in this day and age in UK, better take to hospital yourself even if at death's door as the ambulance service is so poor due to staff shortages and being unable to offload in A&E)

Medical in what sense exactly?
Wheelsofdeath · 21/12/2021 08:43

@msc6199 oh bless you so much thank you, that really does mean a lot! That's really put a smile on my face this morning Smile
I hope you have a lovely Christmas Xmas Grin

GotToGoBye · 21/12/2021 09:01

I can’t see anyone giving you a kicking OP. Just it would have been appropriate to drive him to A&E and that lots of people (but obviously not all from the thread) would not have rang for an ambulance.

To me an ambulance is for someone who physically cannot get into a car, heart attack, stroke, massive haemorrhage etc it’s not to jump the queue for admission or that you automatically qualify for transport when you are ill.

Appendix, broken bones or burns/injuries should be driven or taxi and everyone should have an emergency plan, and be available for others when they can, especially if they have children.

HyggeTygge1 · 21/12/2021 09:07

My 3 year old daughter is very poorly, she has seizures that can lead to all sorts of complications if they aren't stopped in 5 minutes. Every time we call an ambulance they are here within 10 mins thank God. The paramedics were telling me last time about how stretched they are. I can't bear thinking about what will happen if we start having to wait longer. I'm so sorry your child is poorly, it's absolutely horrendous to watch, I really do understand. The service is on its knees. I think it's worth hearing the stories of people whose ambulances do come straight away to see how sick they really are though.

Legoninjago1 · 21/12/2021 09:45

I'd have driven him - pandemic or not. Sorry.

Original poster
mineofuselessinformation · 21/12/2021 09:57

@msc6199, this is the part of your post that I responded to.
'I can't imagine they explicitly said "we can't help you" as that is definitely not part of the script'
In effect, you called me a liar. I am not.

OP posts:
dustandfluf · 21/12/2021 10:32

@chopc

I am medical. I can imagine OP probably found her son's pain scary and didn't want to risk him collapsing in the journey - if he was in an ambulance they have means of dealing with it

(Sadly in this day and age in UK, better take to hospital yourself even if at death's door as the ambulance service is so poor due to staff shortages and being unable to offload in A&E)

Your 'medical' knowledge doesn't sound very credible.
SpindleWhirling · 21/12/2021 10:37

It's just words on a screen, @mineofuselessinformation. Ignore it. People call each other all sorts on here, which can be funny but also a bit sad at times. And anything to do with ambulances tends to bring out emotion in some posters because of prior experiences (although some people are just not very nice).

Equally, no-one knows who anyone is on here, or if their claims to be medics, call handlers etc are true. It's the nature of the beast.

Words on a screen, remember.

Hmumoftw0 · 21/12/2021 10:43

If you was so concerned about your child why did you wait for an ambulance? If you can drive why did you even accept an ambulance?

Iv only ever rang an ambulance once, when my DH had fallen smashed his head and was unconscious, even then it took 8 minutes.

I would never risk waiting for an ambulance or take an ambulance away from someone that needed it, my sister can't drive neither can her partner and they have 4 kids they always come to mind so I jump straight in the car and go.

aliceca · 21/12/2021 11:16

Yeah, people are being harsh to you OP. You were scared I get that.
Abdominal pain in young healthy people is rarely a cause for a total emergency. So sure go to A and E, but you will always be a low priority. Because however much pain someone is in, they are extremely unlikely to die from it. The exception would be sepsis, but the 111 questions should be screening for this.

And to comments, paramedics can do nothing for a burst appendix. Surgery is the only solution.

aliceca · 21/12/2021 11:18

Also even in First Aid classes I was taught that the person screaming in agony is not a priority. If they are screaming they will probably be okay not to have immediate attention. It is the people who are quiet that are the ones you have to go to.

Hemingwayscatz · 21/12/2021 11:24

I don’t think this is new tbh. I called an ambulance in early March 2020 so just as the pandemic was kicking off but no deaths had occurred yet so it was very early days. It was for DS who was 16 months old and struggling to breathe. It took them an hour to arrive. In hindsight, we should just have driven him to A&E ourselves and I don’t know why we didn’t but we learnt in future and haven’t called one since! We just drive there now because we know it’s quicker than waiting for an ambulance. His oxygen was 88 fwiw so he was very sick and obviously also very young.

aliceca · 21/12/2021 11:31

@Hemingwayscatz I am sorry to hear that. I know below 88 is the level that raises real concern, so I assume at 88 the algorithm put him in a much lower priority for an ambulance.
Generally, though ambulances are for people who either physically can't get to a hospital in a car because of their condition, or are at risk of dying very imminently.