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Original poster

Star Hobson’s mother

248 replies

HermioneWeasley · 16/12/2021 10:37

I read as an incidental comment that she had an IQ of 70. This doesn’t seem to have been taken into account by social services in terms of her needing more support or being vulnerable. Does anyone know what would normally happen? It seems like a very significant factor which should have had social services on alert.

OP posts:
xxxGirlCrushxxx · 16/12/2021 10:44

I have no idea what my IQ is! Do you know yours?

How does it matter?

NeedsCharging · 16/12/2021 10:44

SS visited the family several times and did nothing I doubt knowing her IQ would have changed how they very badly handled the concerns that Stars own family raised.

The majority of people do not know their own IQ so I not sure how you expect SS to monitor those with a low IQ?

DressingPafe · 16/12/2021 10:51

I know a family where all the DC have additional needs/low IQ’s. Two of the daughters had babies, but SS weren’t involved at all. Their mum helped out at lot, practically raising one of her GC. Which seems to have been somewhat the case with Stars mother and her own mum, initially at least.

SheWoreYellow · 16/12/2021 10:54

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

I have no idea what my IQ is! Do you know yours?

How does it matter?

By googling, it suggests a mental age of about 12.
soapboxqueen · 16/12/2021 10:56

People don't generally know their own IQ but in this case that bit of information is being used to show that Star's mother may have been particularly vulnerable, particularly when in a relationship with an abuser.

I've known people with learning difficulties who have had extra support and/or where other family members have had guardianship of the children and they all live together.

There were massive failings on the part of SS irrespective of the mother's potential vulnerabilities but it shouldn't be beyond the ken of man to be able to recognise if a parent may need extra support due to their own needs.

xxxGirlCrushxxx · 16/12/2021 10:56

Was her IQ tested in custody or is it data from school or something?

thelittlestrhino · 16/12/2021 11:00

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

Was her IQ tested in custody or is it data from school or something?
In custody.
Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 16/12/2021 11:02

Gorillas have an IQ of between 75 and 95 but don't allow other gorillas to abuse their infants....

UltraVividLament · 16/12/2021 11:09

An IQ of 70 would have been very apparent at school, as it is significantly below the norm. Likely her CAT scores would have reflected this. But, having a very low IQ doesn't say much about you in terms of your emotional development and people with that low an IQ would still be able to tell right from wrong. It also isn't an automatic trigger for social services to be involved in an adult's life.

It does make someone much more susceptible to influence from more intelligent people with more dominant personalities. Children I have taught with this kind of IQ are often very easily led.

MichelleScarn · 16/12/2021 11:11

By googling, it suggests a mental age of about 12.

My 5 yo would know its not right to purposely hurt or be cruel to someone in the way Star Hobsons mother behaved.

furbabymama87 · 16/12/2021 11:12

Social services have failed in this case. But her low intelligence was taken into account by the jury and she was still found guilty of causing or allowing her death and that she had been cruel and callous towards baby Star.

Samcro · 16/12/2021 11:14

my adult dd has ld's
she is never cruel. low IQ doesn't = cruel

NellieBertram · 16/12/2021 11:15

Social services were completely overwhelmed and didn’t have the staff, time or resources to look after this family.

Knowing the mother’s IQ is irrelevant.

Winterlude · 16/12/2021 11:20

IQ isn't routinely tested in schools in UK, and don't think educational psychologists even test for it that often. I have 2 children in special school and neither have had their IQ tested. One is considered to have "moderate learning difficulties" but this isn't an official diagnosis that would be on his medical records so I'm not sure how anyone would know this once he is an adult. His autism diagnosis is on his medical records though. Learning difficulties/disabilities are poorly identified and supported in this country, especially when "borderline" like Star's mum.

Also from a social care point of view, as long as some is judged to have "capacity" (and the bar for this is quite low) they are free to have children and bring them up themselves like everyone else, without too much interference from the state, unless problems are identified. Which is how it should be IMO. The problem with this case is that problems were reported to SS but they seem to have not took them very seriously.

Ozanj · 16/12/2021 11:21

IQ tests don’t mean much by themselves. It depends on what is being tested. They can also be really easy to manipulate and that is probably why this evidence wasn’t really taken into account by the Jury. FS and her murderer girlfriend have said and done everything possible to get off from blaming FS dad for ‘historic abuse’ despite her dad’s family being the ones to repeatedly contact SS, to making up crap about 90 minute seizures.

80sMum · 16/12/2021 11:22

I do think that the mother's very low IQ, immaturity and the fact that she was "unusually compliant" to the requests/demands of perceived authority figures definitely has some bearing on the case and is no doubt largely the reason why she was sentenced to 8 years and not the maximum 16 years.

stingofthebutterfly · 16/12/2021 11:22

I think they'll appeal her sentence and use this tbh. Coupled with the DV issues, I'm sure her lawyer (and many others, myself included) feel that her sentence should have been reflective of culpability category B, and it wasn't, the judge used category A. I don't even think she should have been found guilty of causing or allowing, tbh. Cruelty, yes, but I don't think that she caused, nor allowed Star's death. I genuinely think she was too cognitively impaired to appreciate that Brockhill was capable of killing Star.

Bagelsandbrie · 16/12/2021 11:25

Her IQ was tested as part of the trial.

It was taken into account, that’s why she only got 8 years and will probably be out in 4. Even though it doesn’t seem to have greatly impacted her life up until this point …!

Ozanj · 16/12/2021 11:26

@stingofthebutterfly

I think they'll appeal her sentence and use this tbh. Coupled with the DV issues, I'm sure her lawyer (and many others, myself included) feel that her sentence should have been reflective of culpability category B, and it wasn't, the judge used category A. I don't even think she should have been found guilty of causing or allowing, tbh. Cruelty, yes, but I don't think that she caused, nor allowed Star's death. I genuinely think she was too cognitively impaired to appreciate that Brockhill was capable of killing Star.
Cat B would mean every baby she gives birth to after release would automatically be taken into care from birth wouldn’t it? With her current charges, provided she complies with social services, she may get another chance at a family.
mugoftea456 · 16/12/2021 11:27

I'm not sure what IQ has to do with it, apart from a smart move by her legal team.

In reality my children have a much lower IQ and would not kill a bug, let alone harm a human.

FlexibleWorkingDenied · 16/12/2021 11:28

@Samcro

my adult dd has ld's she is never cruel. low IQ doesn't = cruel
I think rather than low IQ = cruel, it’s more a case of low IQ = vulnerability to being manipulated by someone more devious and cruel into doing what they want them to do (ie. the partner), following along without questioning. Although I do agree that Frankie Smith was very cruel to Star even when the partner wasn’t present. I’ve been many people on these threads saying “well my 5yo knows not to be cruel to others”, however that’s with your good parenting, your modelling and guidance, your praise etc. If you started telling your 5yo to nip/poke/push their baby sister, telling them it’s ok, them watching you do it too, you giving them positive praise and attention for doing it. Even if they were unsure at first, they may well eventually begin to follow suit as it’s what they’ve been told to do and the example they’ve been set.
mugoftea456 · 16/12/2021 11:30

@FlexibleWorkingDenied that's a good point, and answers my post well.

toomuchlaundry · 16/12/2021 11:32

If she didn't have the capability to understand that Brockhill could have killed Star, surely she didn't have the capability to be a parent, and Star should have been removed from her care as a baby. Hopefully, any future child will be

MichelleScarn · 16/12/2021 11:34

With her current charges, provided she complies with social services, she may get another chance at a family.

What a horrifying thought.

HeatonGrove · 16/12/2021 11:36

By googling, it suggests a mental age of about 12

And UK had no difficulties convicting the 10 year olds who murdered James Bulger for murder.