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Star Hobson’s mother

248 replies

HermioneWeasley · 16/12/2021 10:37

I read as an incidental comment that she had an IQ of 70. This doesn’t seem to have been taken into account by social services in terms of her needing more support or being vulnerable. Does anyone know what would normally happen? It seems like a very significant factor which should have had social services on alert.

OP posts:
ringoutthebells · 16/12/2021 20:51

Gosh there are such a lot of armchair court experts on these threads! Getting a cognitive assessment is not some clever or sly defence 'tactic', it happens day in day out in childcare and criminal proceedings, even pre-proceedings social services involvement, and should be picked up at the earliest stage by any qualified professionals involved.

It is a failing of ss that they didn't pick up on FS low intelligence and vulnerability, coupled with the multiple referrals from family members and evidence of dv in the relationship with SB, should have made this a high risk case from the outset snd care proceeding issued by the local authority. I don't believe SB would have had no evidence of previous involvement for violence pre-dating all this, even if no actual convictions. Isn't she known to be part of a big and violent family? Surely local sws would know this!

This (sadly) is not an unusual type of case at all, the only thing that is unusual in this instance is the inaction of the professionals involved.

Basically, the cognitive assessment should have been one of the first things done (plus more detailed police checks) so the sws knew how to work with the mother. A risk assessment of sb should have been undertaken and proper investigations into Star's injuries (police, doctors, family court fact finding, etc).

Bagelsandbrie · 16/12/2021 20:52

@50ShadesOfCatholic oh I don’t know… there are PLENTY of women (and men for that matter) who pick and stay with exceptionally abusive partners but are very intelligent themselves. It’s not necessarily a sign of low intelligence to end up in an abusive relationship!

50ShadesOfCatholic · 16/12/2021 20:59

@mowglika

Sorry but the apologists really anger me, the jury themselves didn’t take this bs low IQ argument into account. So let’s IQ test everyone in jail and lower their sentence as they could have been subject to undue influence hmm

Let's unpack that.

"Apologists" anger you.
So you get emotional when confronted with the possibility that a woman's mental state may have contributed to her criminal behaviour.

That's understandable, it really is, it's a hugely distressing crime. But here's the thing, normal people do not kill their children. And if we want to stop children being killed, we need to understand what puts them at risk. Clearly we don't understand or recognise all the risks yet such as those of the parents being in coercive and abusive relationships.

Regarding the jury, they are random people, highly unlikely to be able to pass informed judgement and very likely encumbered with both conscious and unconscious bias.

That's why judge-alone trials are so much safer.

But even the judge can only work with information presented and their experience. And while considerable, there is a dearth of intelligence around vulnerabilities. It's one of the reasons that social workers, professionals trained to work with vulnerable people, still misstep.

And your final assertion about all inmates being IQ tested and then having their sentences reduced accordingly. I think this is long overdue. Research tells us that as many as 95% of prisoners have previously undiagnosed SEN.

Point is, it's tempting but not helpful to demonise people. We make no progress as a society until we investigate, learn and change.

LoveMyPiano · 16/12/2021 21:00

My friend's son, himself measured IQ of around 75, has fathered a child with a young woman with an IQ of

Megan1992xx · 16/12/2021 21:07

@MrsTerryPratchett

What is to stop her getting pregnant when she leaves prison?

A day in the life of a SW.

Try to work out if she's in a relationship. Literally everyone will lie about this. Try to work out if the wo/man concerned is abusive. Ditto. If you even get any information, you need to have a capacity decision made, can she consent? OK so she can consent but only just, she's right on the cusp. And the man (because we're talking about pregnancy) is worrying but no solid evidence he's abusive. You talk about using contraception but either it's "yes I will" she won't or "but I want another baby, I'm so sad" she also won't. Remember she has capacity. She gets pregnant but doesn't seek care so you have no idea. She drinks/uses through the pregnancy because she's traumatised. Baby is born, let's hope you know well before then. Baby is removed but it's a very very difficult process. Baby is alcohol impacted. Dodgy father wants custody, you don't think this is in baby's best interest. No solid evidence. Baby stays with dad and mum definitely is around but no solid evidence. Neglect and abuse.

Wait 16 years.

Repeat.

Fitting of a contraceptive device as part of the prison sentence. No contraceptive device stay in prison, one fitted allowed out.

I have had enough of cry baby liberals!

EmmaWoodhousestreehouse · 16/12/2021 21:09

A low IQ does not excuse or negate what she did. Plenty of women with low intelligence have children and don’t abuse or murder them.

Yet another epic safeguarding fuck up.

Spoldge45 · 16/12/2021 21:25

No excuse, regardless of her IQ - Even a kid would understand that beating a toddler is wrong.

Her sentence was incredibly low anyway.

Giving her any less that this that would surely send out the impression that this sort of behaviour is in some way acceptable.

pizz · 16/12/2021 21:36

Capacity to consent to sex isn't the same as capacity to raise a child.

I guess but clearly those in her life and social services decided she was capable of both.

MichelleScarn · 16/12/2021 21:37

@splodge45 similar to what I said upthread, and was called ignorant and twattyness directed at my 5 yo, by a poster obviously showing how they were so much better than me! Confused

planteen · 16/12/2021 21:41

@Megan1992xx

Yep. Nobody can pin em down but we can give ultimatums after such serious crimes. No rights impacted, just a negotiation.

Noisyprat · 16/12/2021 21:47

What I don't understand about this case and the case of Arthur is that very very close family members repeatedly voiced and reported their concerns. In Star's case the babysitter Holly also reported, someone in regular close contact.

Are we to understand that this is the norm and social services have mountains of cases where close/immediate family are voicing concerns and they are not being investigated/dismissed? If that's the case then surely the first thing that needs to happen is that any case that has a close family member reporting concerns is immediately priority.

Prepared to be flamed that I am being naive.

UltraVividLament · 16/12/2021 21:57

I think for me that it's the combination of multiple family members and others reporting, with photographic evidence of severe bruising. Plus in both cases a partner that wasn't related to the child doing a lot of the child "care".

I think most people would assume that reporting pretty severe non-accidental bruising on such young children would have been enough to trigger major action from SS. But it seems like the SS dept in Star's area were almost at the point of collapse and incapable of functioning safely.

Loveatthe5anddime · 16/12/2021 22:43

I’ve followed and done a lot of reading on this case, I’ve also looked at other cases and patients with similar IQ’s

This whole “my child is 5-14 and isn’t cruel and an abuser” argument is flawed.

Most children and young adults with statistically low IQ’s still have an excellent and stable childhood with good role models and people that protect them from right and wrong.

People with learning difficulties may not necessarily be more likely to abuse but it would make them more vulnerable and susceptible to being influenced by the people around them, their sense of right of wrong may also be swayed by any praise they are awarded from a manipulator in certain situations regardless if those situations are morally or lawfully right.

People pleasing and wanting to feel a sense of achievement is quite common.

MrsTerryPratchett · 16/12/2021 22:51

Are we to understand that this is the norm and social services have mountains of cases where close/immediate family are voicing concerns and they are not being investigated/dismissed? If that's the case then surely the first thing that needs to happen is that any case that has a close family member reporting concerns is immediately priority.

I genuinely wonder what people think SWs do all day. Work on sweet families with no real issues and call them to say thanks? Of course serious cases are prioritised. And immediate family very frequently maliciously report, more than randoms.

All these armchair perfect SWs should go qualify.

MichelleScarn · 16/12/2021 23:03

@MrsTerryPratchett I absolutely am in awe of soc workers and what they deal with, and the dammed if do/don't as is hugely evident in2 threads on here tonight.

pizz · 16/12/2021 23:05

@MrsTerryPratchett

Are we to understand that this is the norm and social services have mountains of cases where close/immediate family are voicing concerns and they are not being investigated/dismissed? If that's the case then surely the first thing that needs to happen is that any case that has a close family member reporting concerns is immediately priority.

I genuinely wonder what people think SWs do all day. Work on sweet families with no real issues and call them to say thanks? Of course serious cases are prioritised. And immediate family very frequently maliciously report, more than randoms.

All these armchair perfect SWs should go qualify.

Ok but what do you think happened then? I have never seen a bruise that big in her life. Everyone in Star's life was concerned about her

Not all social workers are useless but some are, and they're the ones involved in cases like this.

I actually considered social work but chose another pathway, so this fascinates me

50ShadesOfCatholic · 16/12/2021 23:07

@Loveatthe5anddime

This whole “my child is 5-14 and isn’t cruel and an abuser” argument is flawed.

Yes it's very much the knee jerk reaction of the ignorant. If only it was so simple as being about age.

pizz · 16/12/2021 23:07

They're no different to the police. A lot of the time they get it right and we don't hear about it but this is clear negligence and should be addressed

Almost all the high profile child abuse/homicide cases in this country have shoddy work by professionals, in common

MichelleScarn · 16/12/2021 23:14

@pizz what do you do professionally to be so sure in your judgement of others. I'm assuming it's similar to those you are so derogatory of to judge them so easily?

NellieBertram · 16/12/2021 23:14

@pizz

They're no different to the police. A lot of the time they get it right and we don't hear about it but this is clear negligence and should be addressed

Almost all the high profile child abuse/homicide cases in this country have shoddy work by professionals, in common

Did Star's social worker have 50 other children covered in bruises to deal with too?
MichelleScarn · 16/12/2021 23:17

@NellieBertram probably or lots of other chaos and over worked happening, but all those who are simultaneously shrieking about heavy handed social work/fucking useless social work don't give a shit about that, or to be properly truthful, the actual child at the centre, they just love the witch hunt, the drama and the burning.

jassixa · 16/12/2021 23:20

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

I have no idea what my IQ is! Do you know yours?

How does it matter?

An IQ of 70 in childhood indicates moderate learning difficulties, and in adulthood indicates a learning disability (if a further assessment is done).
Walkaround · 16/12/2021 23:30

On the face of it, it seems there was a whole host of significant factors social services completely ignored. I can usually see how difficult it would likely have been for a social worker to establish what was really going on, but if the reporting is accurate in this case, I find it almost impossible to comprehend how so many warnings from more than one source could have been so swiftly and comprehensively rejected on each occasion by social services, with so little apparent effort to investigate any of them properly.

Kite22 · 16/12/2021 23:42

Honestly it just sounds like the social workers didn’t have the capacity to look closely.
The department was hugely understaffed, it had been consistently found to be inadequate over several years, lots of workers were agency temps and social workers often had caseloads 2 or 3 times what would be considered “safe”.

Everyone involved knew the service wasn’t safe or adequate. It’s amazing anyone was still showing up to work at all.

There will be lots more cases like this - in social services and others like maternity services and health & care that are now routinely operating on unsafe staffing levels.

This ^

and everything MrsTerryPratchett says.

You'd be horrified at the details I've heard about a child just today as it happens - yes, already on a child protection plan, but still living in the household that is treating the the way she does. The 'plan' doesn't prtect her at all. Of course she should be removed..... and put where ? I don't blame the individual social workers, but the whole system is completely broken. The SWs do not have the capacity to remove children in the overwhelming majority of these cases. Arthur, or Star, or any of the other children that have died and court cases are being discussed this week or month are NOT isolated cases.

I have no idea why every now and then the odd case hits the headlines and grabs everyone's attention, because this is the daily grind in local authorities up and down the country.

Governments should not waste money on pontificating about 'holding enquiries' - ask anyone on the ground what the issue is and it is capacity, which ultimately comes down to money. Surely someone ought to mention to the politicians that there are regular serious case reviews that happen after the criminal trials finish in all these deaths. There are years and years of 'evidence' already there. Everyone will tell you the same thing. Every time, the changes that could be made if that were the real will of the people, don't happen.

bubblesbubbles11 · 16/12/2021 23:46

MrsTerryPratchett Thu 16-Dec-21 20:44:43

I hear you.