Star Hobson verdict in

[Lougle]

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

She has admitted to, and been found guilty of child cruelty, so, yes, in short.

Child cruelty wasn’t the charge.

I’m not sure about the whole IQ of 70 thing in the context of this. My son aged 9 has severe and complex autism and learning disabilities. He attends a complex needs school. He is seemingly far more impaired by his disabilities than Frankie - who has by all extents led a fairly normal life and was able to live independently- and yet he absolutely knows the difference between right and wrong and would never hurt a baby / child. I can only think of people with severe and profound autism / disabilities who literally have no rational control who wouldn’t or who would unintentionally hurt someone during a meltdown etc. I think Frankie absolutely knew what she was doing.

I've just watched a video of the grandad David talking about Star and it's just so sad. That poor baby had great-grandparents who could have given her everything she ever needed.

Shocking low IQ or not, she was perfectly capable of organising a busy social life and leaving her baby with any dog on the street. She humiliated and hurt her own little girl. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. The pair of them should never know a moment’s peace ever again.

[quote danni0509]@Itsnotover I know straightaway which posters have personal experience of LD / IQ and what it means for a person and those that don’t reading the responses on here.[/quote]
Exactly.

How many 18 year olds do you know who want to go out drinking with their mum?!

The thing about holding Star under water, if you read the trial, was likely to have been SB manipulating FS to say she did this when she was angry and drunk. It probably never happened,

@lemmein

FS held Star under water, she was seen dragging Star by the reigns, she ignored her cries when she was trying to climb the stairs (with broken legs!) - she made her stand at the wall for prolonged periods when SB wasn't even there. She was the one who manipulated SS, constantly putting them off to avoid questions about Stars obvious bruises.

I think she was very fortunate to not get a manslaughter verdict. Low IQ or not, she joined in with Stars abuse and even encouraged it by keeping SB informed of Stars behaviour. She didn't even ring for an ambulance straightaway!

100% the right verdict for SB though!

Yes this. I read the court transcript every day. It seemed FS just wanted shot of Star so so she could go out drinking. Her mother (Yvonne) would also be out with her knowing that poor baby was sat in a roasting hot car on and industrial estate overnight with an abusive woman. Poor Star was so let down by people who just seemed to want to be out drinking all weekend. SB seemed to have swooped in and taken over Star even acting as she had as much right over her as FS. So so many red flags and obvious danger signs. The bruises the depressed baby. Making a toddler stand to face the wall for being naughty!! Who does that??? Nasty wicked people, one just wanting free reign to go out and drink and the other wanting to dominate and control. Holding that baby under water! Keeping her awake for as long as possible and googling how long can you last without sleep and other disgusting subjects. Manipulating social services (who need investigating too!). This baby would have been better staying with her great gps but the controlling SB wouldn't let that happen and FS went along with it. Another darling child lost because of evil wicked adults and crap children's services!

When tested the mother was found to have an IQ of 70, in the bottom 2% of the country. This would indicate she lacked the capacity to understand her actions.

There needs to be a conversation about whether individuals such as this are capable of adequately caring for and being responsible for the development of any children they may produce. And if the answer is ‘no, they are not’, what to do about that.

@Bagelsandbrie

I’m not sure about the whole IQ of 70 thing in the context of this. My son aged 9 has severe and complex autism and learning disabilities. He attends a complex needs school. He is seemingly far more impaired by his disabilities than Frankie - who has by all extents led a fairly normal life and was able to live independently- and yet he absolutely knows the difference between right and wrong and would never hurt a baby / child. I can only think of people with severe and profound autism / disabilities who literally have no rational control who wouldn’t or who would unintentionally hurt someone during a meltdown etc. I think Frankie absolutely knew what she was doing.

You can’t compare FS with your child- it doesn’t work that way.

FS has a mental age of 9. It’s hardly surprising that she could be manipulated to do things that she knew instinctively were wrong.

I have no idea how some people can be so black and white and unable to see what unfolded here.

@Bagelsandbrie

I’m not sure about the whole IQ of 70 thing in the context of this. My son aged 9 has severe and complex autism and learning disabilities. He attends a complex needs school. He is seemingly far more impaired by his disabilities than Frankie - who has by all extents led a fairly normal life and was able to live independently- and yet he absolutely knows the difference between right and wrong and would never hurt a baby / child. I can only think of people with severe and profound autism / disabilities who literally have no rational control who wouldn’t or who would unintentionally hurt someone during a meltdown etc. I think Frankie absolutely knew what she was doing.

I agree with you. It’s clear from the videos that she enjoyed harming, scaring and torturing the baby. It was a form of entertainment for the two of them.

How was a person with an IQ of 70 allowed to keep her baby without substantial input and help from SS? How was she allowed to have someone move in with her and her daughter, as an extremely vulnerable person? How is it possible that calls were made about poor Star and she wasn't removed. The photo of the bruising on her face is beyond heart-breaking. SS should rot in hell for their failings once again.

@Itsnotover

I hope Brockhill gets sent down for life. She’s evil and is a danger to society.

I don’t believe Frankie Smith is evil and I hope she gets a second chance at life. She has an IQ of 70 and I don’t think a lot of people understand what that actually means. I have a daughter with a similar IQ who is also 20 and she’s never lived independently and never will. She’s been in residential since the age of 14.

As soon as FS is given a “second chance at life” she will be out there and pregnant, bringing more innocent children into the world that she can’t look after. Frankie Smith needs to be locked up for the what happened to Star and to ensure she does not bring any more children into the world.

And no, she didn’t live independently - she was housed in supported living. Clearly she didn’t get the ‘support’ part of that did she?

Lots of 18 year olds do go out drinking with their mum- I used to! Others I knew / know did. It isn’t that unusual. They had a large and close family and seemed to spend a lot of their time in the pub. It isn’t a sign of her being unable to cope / manage her life. She just wanted everyone else to look after Star so she could go out.

I agree with you. It’s clear from the videos that she enjoyed harming, scaring and torturing the baby. It was a form of entertainment for the two of them.

Did you even follow the trial?

@Itsnotover

And no, she didn’t live independently - she was housed in supported living. Clearly she didn’t get the ‘support’ part of that did she?

I followed the trial and didn’t realise that. If that is the case it is an absolute mess all round.

Right verdict.

Frankie is a low IQ, vulnerable teenage mother who fell into an abusive relationship.

Sentencing guidelines are about 10 years for her guilty verdict.

@MondayYogurt

I'm a pessimist. Frankie will have more children. Predators always find prey.

Getting sterilised would be a kind act for women like this.

@danni0509

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/causing-or-allowing-a-child-to-suffer-serious-physical-harm-causing-or-allowing-a-child-to-die/

I think frankie comes under category C reading the criteria. Taking the time off she has already served, I think she’ll be out in the next year or so.

I hope she can rebuild her life and learn to make the right choices, she’s going to need a lot of support.

Savannah for me I hope they lose the key.

If people want to use her IQ as an excuse for her neglect then any 'rebuilding' of her life should include imposing the impossibility of her breeding any more victims, the right to breed should not be inviable.

@Itsnotover

I agree with you. It’s clear from the videos that she enjoyed harming, scaring and torturing the baby. It was a form of entertainment for the two of them.

Did you even follow the trial?

Sorry? Are you saying she wasn’t laughing at her exhausted child falling off a chair? Sending the videos to friends? Did you follow the trial?

It’s not an excuse but it does explain how she let this happen.

I would bet that if FS had a visible disability like Down’s syndrome people would be less apt to say she’s ‘just evil’.

@danni0509

I hope she can rebuild her life and learn to make the right choices, she’s going to need a lot of support.

Would you be saying that if the evil bastard was male?

She should rot in jail.

Where do you read the transcripts from court?

@Itsnotover if FS has / had a mental age of 9 then I would say most - if not all- 9 year olds know that hurting another person is wrong. I can see it’s an interesting debate to be had in terms of coercive and manipulative relationships in this sense, but I don’t think anyone can argue she didn’t know what she did was wrong- echoed by the verdict in court today. She may be a vulnerable young person but she is also a dangerous one.

Depends on the the sentence now but yes, hopefully justice will be fine

Done