Star Hobson verdict in

[Lougle]

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

FS was on the borderline of whether she would have been able to parent a child anyway. That she was a single parent made her more vulnerable. It sounds as though she also has an alcohol problem and no idea about appropriate boundaries and things like that. All together, a recipe to make her and Star so, so vulnerable. But, I don't think FS did any of this intentionally, I think she wasn't able to protect herself and her child from abusive SB and that's tragic but doesn't mean FS deserves years in prison. She should never be allowed soul custody of a child again, no doubt about that, but social services could have done a lot better considering her level of vulnerability and learning disability.

SB on the other hand sounds like a very nasty abusive individual. Really one of the worst kinds of people. A PP said that she seems like the type who would do well in prison? No. Women's prisons are full of Mums, Grans, Aunts etc. Most women are in for non violent crimes like shoplifting and drug dealing. SB will be classed as a vulnerable prisoner not in the normal prison population with all those mums, aunts, grans etc. In men's prisons a nasty bullying individual it might be different, but the female prison population is not full of domestic abusers and sexual predators like male prisons are because these crimes are much less common in the female population.

I have been following this and read the whole court transcripts live every day as I am from the same town as poor little Star. It's been heartbreaking to follow. I think it's the right verdict.

SB was truly scary. I don't even think she will get any kind of rough justice in prison, she is more likely to be feared. She had to be asked several times to stop smirking whilst giving evidence.

@Pleasedontputthatthere

SB was truly scary. I don't even think she will get any kind of rough justice in prison, she is more likely to be feared. She had to be asked several times to stop smirking whilst giving evidence.

I thought that showed a real lack of insight, though, on SB's part. She couldn't control herself and imagine what she must look like to the court. She revealed her lack of remorse and genuinely thought herself to be smarter than the expert witnesses and the prosecutor. She didn't even allow her defence team to help her when they were questioning her. She seemed sure she'd get off.

@Lougle

I think if there had been a neglect/causing suffering charge, that would have been appropriate for FS. I just think that causing/allowing required more sophisticated thinking processes than she is likely capable of, given her IQ.

Although I do see what you mean, FS was still capable of manipulating social services. I agree with the verdict for her.

@MondayYogurt

I'm a pessimist. Frankie will have more children. Predators always find prey.

Surely she wouldn't be allowed to keep any further children anyway?

I can't find any sympathy for that mother. Putting up with abuse is complex, I know, but letting your child be abused is a different matter, and inexcusable, whatever your IQ.

@Itsnotover I also have a daughter with a borderline IQ she's 22. I know that she would never be able to cope with the demands of a child. I can't understand how she was just, seemingly, left to it.

I have a family member who has an IQ in that region, shes a lovely girl but will never hold down a job or be a parent, why this obviously vulnerable lady was left alone with a baby is beyond me

Even though FS has a low IQ doesn’t mean she isn’t capable of causing or allowing harm. She was aware that SB was hitting star but she allowed it to continue. I’m not sure why people feel sorry for her, surely protecting your children from harm is a basic instinct. Apologies if I haven’t understood the implications of her IQ level, it doesn’t seem an adequate defence to me

@Somethingsnappy I think FS could only avoid SS because they weren't overly concerned. If they had pushed, even a little, she wouldn't have been able keep up a pretence, I don't think. My DD (with SN) lies constantly, but there is always something she's avoiding and it's usually quite obvious. SS should have seen red flags in all those cancellations.

I have not seen any reports suggesting that Frankie Smith was considered to have a low IQ or any form of learning impairment before her arrest.

agree with @Clawdy

probably Star should have been removed much much earlier, but that didn't happen and FS was responsible for Star when she was killed, so I think its an appropriate verdict.

Five social service referrals and nothing done about it. It’s absolutely shameful! That poor little girl was badly let down ☹️

FS held Star under water, she was seen dragging Star by the reigns, she ignored her cries when she was trying to climb the stairs (with broken legs!) - she made her stand at the wall for prolonged periods when SB wasn't even there. She was the one who manipulated SS, constantly putting them off to avoid questions about Stars obvious bruises.

I think she was very fortunate to not get a manslaughter verdict. Low IQ or not, she joined in with Stars abuse and even encouraged it by keeping SB informed of Stars behaviour. She didn't even ring for an ambulance straightaway!

100% the right verdict for SB though!

Frankie Smith required learning support at school, and it was noted during the trial that she was still playing with dolls at 16 @TheYearOfSmallThings

@TheYearOfSmallThings I read another forum, she was having autism tests, she had sen support in school, got v low grades in her GCSEs, still played with dolls when she was 16 etc.

* Sorry but nah she doesn't get a second chance at life in my opinion. Low IQ or not, she was absolutely vile to her young child, and allowed her partner to torture the child. And kill her. I don't feel sorry for her*

^This. Both women deserve to rot in hell.

Yes FS will never be allowed to be in soul custody of a child again, no doubt about that. If she does have any more children, she might be allowed supervised contact or something, but SS will always keep an incredibly close eye on it if that did happen. More likely a baby would be taken at birth. They can't stop her having babies, but she will never be allowed to be in soul custody ever again it's too great a risk. I believe she should be serving jail time, just not as much as SB. It sounds like FS was very immature and troubled as well as the low IQ and as Pps have said I can't understand why she was allowed to be the soul carer for a small child considering this.

She was also the one who shouted to startle Star when she was falling asleep with pure exhaustion - and filmed it, finding herself hilarious.

Don't understand the sympathy tbh - a low IQ doesn't excuse any of the torturous acts she did towards her baby.

If you read all the court transcripts then you’ll see why the mother got that conviction. A young woman I know with an IQ of 70 is in residential care and not able to live alone. I’m not saying that Frankie is the same but that combined with the abuse involved indicates to me that she wasn’t capable of protecting her child in the way most women would be. I also think she’s still terrified of Brockhill, who I understand has threatened her and her family. Brockhill being from a big, well known local family who don’t believe she’s done anything wrong.

I think these are the correct verdicts.

Sorry but nah she doesn't get a second chance at life in my opinion. Low IQ or not, she was absolutely vile to her young child, and allowed her partner to torture the child. And kill her. I don't feel sorry for her

This. I'm shocked at how quickly excuses and apologies are already being made for Smith. She was just as culpable and will hopefully spend a very, very long time in jail now, or at least long enough that when she is eventually released she will be way past child bearing age

@lemmein

She was also the one who shouted to startle Star when she was falling asleep with pure exhaustion - and filmed it, finding herself hilarious.

Don't understand the sympathy tbh - a low IQ doesn't excuse any of the torturous acts she did towards her baby.

I don't understand the sympathy either. They should both rot in jail. Social services in Bradford and surrounding isn't fit for purpose if anyone is wondering why this poor little tot was overlooked on multiple occasions.

@LondonWolf

If you read all the court transcripts then you’ll see why the mother got that conviction. A young woman I know with an IQ of 70 is in residential care and not able to live alone. I’m not saying that Frankie is the same but that combined with the abuse involved indicates to me that she wasn’t capable of protecting her child in the way most women would be. I also think she’s still terrified of Brockhill, who I understand has threatened her and her family. Brockhill being from a big, well known local family who don’t believe she’s done anything wrong.

I think these are the correct verdicts.

I have read the court transcripts.

She didn't 'only' allow her child to be abused, she abused star too - when SB wasn't even present.

Ss failed that poor bairn but surely way back a midwife should have know she hadn't enough capacity to raise a dc...