Star Hobson verdict in

[Lougle]

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

@Bagelsandbrie

8 years?!!!!!! That’s insane!!! She’ll only be 28 when she’s released if she isn’t released before then!!! Horrendous.

She only has to serve 2/3 of her sentence, minus time already on remand. Means she'll be out in 4 years if she behaves herself.

I'd clinically like to observe FS to see if it's true about her IQ. Caltech have been working on neuroimaging scans that can determine a persons IQ.
Not everybody with an IQ of 70 will act the same. Somebody with that sort of IQ - though not always will possibly wet the bed, have the mental age of someone around 10, be unable to keep up with conversations of people of their age group, will enjoy cartoons and simple shows. Wont be able to understand complex things. Someone with an IQ of 65-70 will struggle to know what the stomach does, tell you where the sun sets or why people put stamps on envelopes. It does affect Moral development and understanding and they are vulnerable and susceptible to manipulation

Adults can't just become mentally retarded overnight, there's Plethora a reasons a child develops a low IQ
I've heard no reports from her family or friends stating how her IQ affected her or how she acted, School reports would be an indication if she does indeed have an IQ that low she could of course have hidden it by acting repetitively. Also someone with that low an IQ can tell you they've done something bad, If you press them for an answer and ask why it's bad they'll be unable to. They also Smile alot.

I've never met her so can't say what her IQ is like. The judge of course could have ordered her for tests. I'm happy the other one got 25 years, I don't know if FS got the right sentence.

I'd like to know who instigated getting Star back from her great grandmother. At least FS recognised at some point that she couldn't cope (so wasn't that unable to recognise the problem) and handed Star over, but someone organised her coming back into the house.

I don't feel either sentence is long enough but then sentences for murder rarely are.

Smith will still be very young when she comes out and it is almost guaranteed she will have at least one more child.

AdmiralCain thank you for explaining about low iQ. I for one don’t think she is that challenged and would like to see more evidence and not just a report from someone paid by her defence.

@suckingonyulelogs

What's the betting the mother has another baby once she's out

In situations like this, I'd happily have her go through forced sterilisation. No woman who murders her child or allows another person to murder them, deserves to ever have another child. I'd rather take away her ability to have kids, than let there be another child in her care. The sentences are in now way long enough, I just hope it's hell in jail.

I think the other point to keep in mind about IQ is that some people do well at IQ tests and some don’t…! The tests are quite mathematical and not everyone has that sort of brain, in the sense that someone could be quite intelligent in many ways but actually really struggle to do an IQ test. Im not entirely sure they’re a very good way of measuring overall intelligence.

@mydogisthebest

I don't feel either sentence is long enough but then sentences for murder rarely are.

Smith will still be very young when she comes out and it is almost guaranteed she will have at least one more child.

She won't be allowed to keep any future children, she couldn't keep her first child safe. Any future children will be removed at birth.

@DottyHarmer

If I thought I'd get off a murder charge by having a low IQ, you bet I'd be honest in that test . I'd be the very stupidest person that had ever stood in the dock.

As I said upthread, there have been defences producing cancer and Alzheimer's diagnoses for their clients, from which recovery is miraculous.

The SB individual was also pulling epilepsy and heart conditions when they were a championship boxer. I think the defence lawyers need hauling over the coals. Everyone is entitled to a defence, but there is a point when "creative" defences are simply lies and could permit a dangerous criminal to reoffend.

They don't do one IQ test and accept the results, FS will have been observed and tested on many occasions.

If they say she has a low IQ then it's likely she does

SB had fits and was also reported to have been in cardiac arrest twice. Again...you cannot take a cardiac arrest.

The picture with the bruises on her face while she's asleep is going to haunt me for the rest of my life. This toddler has been let down severely. She would have been the same age as my son if she wasn't brutally murdered by the hands of these disgusting human beings that don't deserve to be called humans. The sentences are far too short.

If anyone feels the sentences are too lenient it is possible to apply to the Attorney General to review them (this is what has happened with Tustin & Hughes' sentences). Only one person needs to ask and the Attorney General then has to consider whether there are grounds to review
www.gov.uk/ask-crown-court-sentence-review

8 years for allowing her child to be murdered- absolutely disgusting.

She won't be allowed to keep any future children, she couldn't keep her first child safe. Any future children will be removed at birth

I really wouldn't want to assume that; if services won't act on the numerous reports made in these cases, it's hardly safe to take the removal of future children as a given

I agree . Neither sentence enough.
But she will have any future children removed at birth which is something o suppose. No way would she ever keep another one.
It is heartbreaking to see that picture. Poor little lamb let down by the authorities again.

If they say she has a low IQ then it's likely she does

I'm sure she is of fairly low intelligence. But a quick look at other cases in which the same psychologist has been paid by the defence to comment on their client suggests that his findings were likely to be sympathetic.

Clinical psychologist Eric Wright said that, after carrying out tests, he assessed Colsell as having an IQ of 75 and of being abnormally suggestible

Psychologists disagreed about Darko’s intelligence. Eric Wright, called by the defence, assessed his IQ at 65 while Kirsty Lowe, called by the Crown, assessed it as 85.

Dr Wright said Mazar was of abnormally low intelligence.

The court heard also from clinical psychologist Eric Wright, who assessed Ms Reynolds-Sloan. She displayed characteristics of a “submissive” personality - typified by being easily manipulated. This meant she would find it more difficult that an average person to resist pressure, Mr Wright told the jury.

@stingofthebutterfly

Right verdict for Savanna.

Not sure about Frankie. I genuinely think she should have been found not guilty as I don't think she either caused nor allowed Star's death. There's no doubt she was a crap mother, but she wasn't charged with cruelty. Many parents have their children removed for that and don't go to jail.

However, I think she'll be in danger if she walks from court, so a short sentence is probably in her best interests.

I have as much thought of what's in her interest as she had in Star's.

[quote timtam23]If anyone feels the sentences are too lenient it is possible to apply to the Attorney General to review them (this is what has happened with Tustin & Hughes' sentences). Only one person needs to ask and the Attorney General then has to consider whether there are grounds to review
www.gov.uk/ask-crown-court-sentence-review[/quote]
I doubt that will achieve much.

Brockhill was sentenced to life with a minimum of 25 years. The law is that, as there were no firearms, explosives or knives involved, and given the evidence is that Brockhill lashed out when angry rather than there being a sexual or sadistic motive, the starting point for the minimum sentence is 15 years. The judge has gone a long way up from that starting point on the basis that the aggravating factors outweigh the mitigating factors by a large margin.

Smith was sentenced to 8 years. The judge decided that her offence was category 1 (no choice on that as Star died) and culpability A (the highest level). That gave a starting point for sentencing of 9 years with a range of 7-14 years. There are aggravating factors, but her immaturity is a mitigating factor and there are some other mitigating factors. It is possible that a review would decide this sentence was unduly lenient and increase it, but I doubt it would go up much. Given the mitigating factors, I would be very surprised if any court saw fit to impose the maximum possible sentence (14 years). However, the courts do surprise me sometimes!

@LizBennet

I know low IQ can contribute to someone being coerced and frightened. I also know some parents with learning difficulties, who manage not to allow their children to be beaten. It's a fucking insult to say their low IQ contributes to them allowing their children to be hurt.

I agree. I am sure there are any parents with a low IQ who nurture their children and do their best by them. My son is nearly 9, no way would he or his friends have thought this was acceptable. I'm sure my dog wouldn't either.

Both far too low - especially FS

Can convictions be taken out against the ‘professionals’ who made gross errors in judgement?

Police officers can go to prison for negligence and have done so. Prison officers get charged ( go to prison ) for neglect themselves if a prisoner died in their care and it was proven negligence.
So my question is why aren’t these social workers getting charged for negligence of duty in public office ?

TH didn't have learning support at school, he wasn't a teenager who had still been playing with toys until fairly recently, he didn't have an IQ of 70.

Not finishing school is not the same thing at all.

If they really turned a blind eye because they were lesbians / traveller origins then they should be in court. And who the hell gives potentially abusive family members the heads up when they are going to visit?

I heard a social worker on radio 4 who said they are obliged to give notice of visits. Unfortunately.

@KittenKong

Can convictions be taken out against the ‘professionals’ who made gross errors in judgement?

You can't "take out" a conviction on anyone, so no.