Star Hobson verdict in

[Lougle]

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

Why are some posters apologising for the mother and saying she needs support

Probably because she's been said to have a low IQ?

Worth remembering, however, that her "score" was assessed by a tester appointed by the defence, and that a different one could well have reached a different conclusion ... it's happened before, as PPs have detailed

@catinboots123

Enforced sterilisation? Hanging? This thread is a disgrace to civilised society. These women have committed terrible, terrible crimes. And they will have a loss of liberty as the law sees fit. Hopefully for a very long time. But prison is a punishment. It is the most awful punishment. Please don't descend into a baying mob asking that they get punished twice.

Prison isn’t enough in these cases though. FS will be out in a relatively short time I would imagine and will probably be young enough to have more children. What is wrong with suggesting some sort of either permanent birth control (either forced injections) or sterilisation? I think where the murder of a child is involved a person should lose their right to further reproduce in the future. Star didn’t get a second chance so why should those involved in her abuse and murder?

We chemically castrate some paedophiles don’t we….

There is having a low IQ then there's evil fs was bad to that poor baby too sick and twisted the pair of them.

Prison is the worst punishment? Yeah, right.

When Frankie gets out she will get pregnant again. Then vast amounts of resources will be required to 'support' her and there's still every chance that her next child will end up horribly abused. Or dead.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Why are some posters apologising for the mother and saying she needs support

Probably because she's been said to have a low IQ?

Worth remembering, however, that her "score" was assessed by a tester appointed by the defence, and that a different one could well have reached a different conclusion ... it's happened before, as PPs have detailed

Well, the assessor was chosen because of his extensive experience in these tests and he was asked to clarify on the points of lower and upper limits. He said that her IQ would, on any assessment be between 65 and 75. There would be no variation from this.

He was also asked if she could have faked the result and he said that no, she appeared to be ‘trying her best’

I just read the Daily Fail article (not linking, but it’s one of their top stories) about the 999 call and it mentions three other kids in the house. Were they SB’s or unrelated? Horrific that other kids had to witness the attack.

@IncompleteSenten

I just do not understand why people who clearly do not love or want their children keep them. Why they lie to social services. Why they don't say I cannot cope, I am a danger to this child. Why they fight to keep a child they just want to hurt. Is it that they fight to keep the child because they enjoy torturing them and want to carry on doing it? I don't expect anyone to be able to answer that, it is just what goes round my head. Just - why? If you hate your child, give them up.

Money, housing. Get rid of the child and that all disappears too.

There are no words for the people suggesting enforced sterilisation. What would you prefer a legal system like they have in Saudi Arabia?

However, I do think that if FS gets pregnant again any time soon, that child should be removed. She is by her own admission, a callous and cruel parent. Or was, under those circumstances.

@Doboopedoo

I just read the Daily Fail article (not linking, but it’s one of their top stories) about the 999 call and it mentions three other kids in the house. Were they SB’s or unrelated? Horrific that other kids had to witness the attack.

They were SB’s nieces and nephews.

Imagine the damage to them having seen SB kill Star?

What happened to Star's father?

Oh he went off to uni to study criminology with barely a backwards glance. He made a report to SS from a photo he saw on SM. He wasn’t involved in her life as far as I know. Didn’t stop him profiting off various funds that were set up in her name though…allegedly.

They were SB niece and nephew. Her sisters children. They are they only ones other than SB who witnessed that fateful blow but they were not able to be questioned as they were only 1 and 2 years old. I 100% believe FS was not in the room as even on the 999 call just 11 minutes after the incident SB thinking she has no reason to lie at this this point says to the operator ‘so I shouted star’s mum into the room’ she’s far from innocent but the abuse occurred at times when she was not there

@Itsnotover

Great posts from you. You are very patient.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Just to be clear, iQ or not, I think she is evil. She made that baby walk up flights of stairs with broken legs. Fuck off with your apologising for her.

Absolutely! No sympathy for her, and I don’t have the words for the other one.

What is wrong with forced medical procedures? Lack of consent, that's what is wrong. Not a path anyone with an ounce of sense would suggest going down.

@Itsnotover Very experienced in his field.

For those wanting to read the court transcripts from the consultant psychologist regarding FS IQ it’s on the link below, from 2.13pm.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19748358.live-updates-star-hobson-murder-trial-day-28/

@catinboots123

Enforced sterilisation? Hanging? This thread is a disgrace to civilised society. These women have committed terrible, terrible crimes. And they will have a loss of liberty as the law sees fit. Hopefully for a very long time. But prison is a punishment. It is the most awful punishment. Please don't descend into a baying mob asking that they get punished twice.

I'm glad someone else has said this!

I pointed out upthread that the Milgram experiment showed how likely people are to comply with an authority figure. How hard would it have been for SB to convince FS - IQ 70 - that she essentially was one of the people in white coats running the show?

These people have done a terrible thing, but we're thankfully not a society that views criminals as having forfeited their humanity altogether. Life isn't as simple as a binary good/evil split.

I think that to say they are simply "evil" is hugely oversimplifying. We need to understand it to prevent it happening again. "Evil" doesn't really mean anything.

For FS, she was clearly unable to grasp the seriousness of what was happening, had a terrible role model in her mother, so had no parenting blueprint. In addition she was abused emotionally and physically by her bully of a girlfriend. Her mother didn't point out her flawed parenting either, or help her to become a better one.

This doesn't make her innocent of course. Her behaviour was cruel beyond belief. But it highlights the crucial lack of support available to struggling young mothers, and funding in social services. She is guilty of causing or allowing the death of her daughter, and will receive a suitable sentence.

@sixpencenonethepoorer

I think that to say they are simply "evil" is hugely oversimplifying. We need to understand it to prevent it happening again. "Evil" doesn't really mean anything.

For FS, she was clearly unable to grasp the seriousness of what was happening, had a terrible role model in her mother, so had no parenting blueprint. In addition she was abused emotionally and physically by her bully of a girlfriend. Her mother didn't point out her flawed parenting either, or help her to become a better one.

This doesn't make her innocent of course. Her behaviour was cruel beyond belief. But it highlights the crucial lack of support available to struggling young mothers, and funding in social services. She is guilty of causing or allowing the death of her daughter, and will receive a suitable sentence.

I think the point I'm making is that we need to understand the reasons to prevent this happening. Not just label "evil" and throw away the key. This won't prevent it happening again.

I think that to say they are simply "evil" is hugely oversimplifying. We need to understand it to prevent it happening again. "Evil" doesn't really mean anything.

Totally agree. I’m so sick of seeing people attributing this to “evil” instead of laying the blame squarely at the feet of the people responsible. There is no evil. It’s entirely human behaviour that is responsible. Calling them evil is such a cop out.

The reports from court don't support that. Theybothhad videos of abuse of Star on their phones that they had sent to each other and to friends because they thought it was amusing.

FS is on CCTV dragging Star along the pavement by her reins when she had a broken leg and was in too much pain to walk, two days before her death.

The sympathy for FS here is sickening.

^This
On the thread about little Arthur, the hate for Tustin was (rightly so) overwhelming. But add in low IQ and the bleeding hearts are out in force. Even young children understand you that don't be cruel to babies. What sort of creatures have no compassion or empathy for their own children?

@sixpencenonethepoorer

I think that to say they are simply "evil" is hugely oversimplifying. We need to understand it to prevent it happening again. "Evil" doesn't really mean anything.

For FS, she was clearly unable to grasp the seriousness of what was happening, had a terrible role model in her mother, so had no parenting blueprint. In addition she was abused emotionally and physically by her bully of a girlfriend. Her mother didn't point out her flawed parenting either, or help her to become a better one.

This doesn't make her innocent of course. Her behaviour was cruel beyond belief. But it highlights the crucial lack of support available to struggling young mothers, and funding in social services. She is guilty of causing or allowing the death of her daughter, and will receive a suitable sentence.

Totally agree.

@Maddison12

The reports from court don't support that. Theybothhad videos of abuse of Star on their phones that they had sent to each other and to friends because they thought it was amusing.

FS is on CCTV dragging Star along the pavement by her reins when she had a broken leg and was in too much pain to walk, two days before her death.

The sympathy for FS here is sickening.

^This
On the thread about little Arthur, the hate for Tustin was (rightly so) overwhelming. But add in low IQ and the bleeding hearts are out in force. Even young children understand you that don't be cruel to babies. What sort of creatures have no compassion or empathy for their own children?

I agree.

I've worked with adults with 'mild' learning needs and I find it highly plausible that FS couldn't tell the difference between a pain cry and a tantrum, and therefore deferred to advice from SB and her Mum on crawling up the stairs and making her walk. She clearly suspected something by September but anyone of normal IQ looking at that July bruise that was released today would be extremely concerned about a serious assault, not just assume it happened when she banged her head on the bed. It's desperately sad that SS didn't take the family's concerns seriously.

I don't think we do need to understand the reasons evil exists, it's impossible, but there were many systemic failures here. Focusing too much on any of these individual low lifes detracts from the process failures.

I hope there will be yet another inquiry into how and why the professionals failed to safeguard.

As to why FS didn't give the baby up, money, and our culture is saturated with mummies and babies - the deadbeat dads barely get a mention, it's expected in these cases unless they've been paid to sell a sob story.