Star Hobson verdict in

[Lougle]

Savannah Brockhill Guilty of murder. Frankie Smith Guilty of causing or allowing death.

[quote Unsure33]@catinboots123

The problem is more where do you draw the line on who or in what circumstances should sterilisation occur. That’s a very dangerous line to draw.[/quote]
There is no line. The mere thought of it is abhorrent.

When Frankie SMITH gets out she will get pregnant again. Then vast amounts of resources will be required to 'support' her and there's still every chance that her next child will end up horribly abused. Or dead.

And of course there's opportunity for a baby to be severely harmed/killed before it's even born.

@casinoroyale4ever

I don't think we do need to understand the reasons evil exists, it's impossible, but there were many systemic failures here. Focusing too much on any of these individual low lifes detracts from the process failures.

I hope there will be yet another inquiry into how and why the professionals failed to safeguard.

As to why FS didn't give the baby up, money, and our culture is saturated with mummies and babies - the deadbeat dads barely get a mention, it's expected in these cases unless they've been paid to sell a sob story.

This. With bells on!

Where on earth was dad?! So he reported to SS because of bruises he saw on social media, but wasn't prepared to give up his cushy uni life to go and rescue his daughter?

Shameful.

Oh FFS. If FS was ever in the position to have another child - it would be removed permanently. Yes SS have made some failings and serious questions and investigations need to be made/asked. But look at the bigger picture? Do you really blame the overstretched individual SW? Or does the blame lie at the feet of our government and the serious underfunding. There was a SW on here the other day who said she was responsible for 15 children and their families - 20 years ago. She left the service last year as she was expected to provide the same level of care for triple the amount of families with the same time and resources.

@sixpencenonethepoorer

I think that to say they are simply "evil" is hugely oversimplifying. We need to understand it to prevent it happening again. "Evil" doesn't really mean anything.

For FS, she was clearly unable to grasp the seriousness of what was happening, had a terrible role model in her mother, so had no parenting blueprint. In addition she was abused emotionally and physically by her bully of a girlfriend. Her mother didn't point out her flawed parenting either, or help her to become a better one.

This doesn't make her innocent of course. Her behaviour was cruel beyond belief. But it highlights the crucial lack of support available to struggling young mothers, and funding in social services. She is guilty of causing or allowing the death of her daughter, and will receive a suitable sentence.

I agree.

It is the fault of the perpetrators.

The low IQ line is weaselly at best and a horrible dereliction of duty to Star at worst. Recently a young woman left her baby to die whilst she was out partying for a week or more. She too had a “low IQ”. Funnily enough she had travelled over half the UK solo, had an active eBay account she’d set up and other social media activity, all requiring some nouse to operate.

When we think of low IQ, I think we envisage a person with substantially more difficulties than these criminals.

I couldn’t agree more about Star’s father. He himself has a criminal record of violence and he had PR. He could easily have removed Star from FS at least temporarily if he really wanted to. But the truth is he wasn’t interested in her.

The men in these situations always get a free pass.

DottyHarmer I completely agree with you ^

For those asking, this is Star's dad

Poor girl never stood a chance
Heartbroken for Anita and David who did everything they could to save Star

When we think of low IQ, I think we envisage a person with substantially more difficulties than these criminals.

But people are not ‘envisaging’ anything other than the information we got from the trial and from FS’s family. Some people are letting their emotions cloud the issue.

The Judge made a lot of reference to FS’s intellectual disability when summing up. Would she have done this if it was not relevant?

I find this insulting to people with Low IQ as the majority would still know not to hurt a child (especially in such vicious ways).
Also, low IQ doesn't mean she isnt *also" cruel or psychopathic.

@FallingStar21 why would the Judge feel it was relevant then?

Every single social worker on this case should be named and shamed and sacked immediately. Anger should rightly be directed at the government who continue to make cuts to services to ensure they are no longer fit for purpose. This government is quiet literally murdering children, while they line their greedy pockets and take as much as they can get. Its utterly reprehensible.

What do they actually need to see for them to take any action? As a parent, a child with so many bruises is quiet a clear indication that something is not right. So many reports from people on the paternal and maternal wider circle and all are apparently homophobic and racist? We all sit here and condemn it but it carries on and what actually changes? There will be another case next week and the next. Its horrifying

There are multiple children murdered every week by their parents either through abuse or neglect that are known to services. MULTIPLE.

Are there any social workers here? I was just wondering in an emergency, how quickly can you get a child removed?

I do actually think the social workers in this case and Arthur’s case should be publicly held accountable. Possibly even charged with some sort of inability to prevent child cruelty when in a position of being able to do so. I don’t know, I just feel unless we start making these people really accountable for their actions personally nothing changes.

@Itsnotover

Are there any social workers here? I was just wondering in an emergency, how quickly can you get a child removed?

Not a social worker, but as I understand it, they would need a court order. I wonder if anyone knows roughly how long it would take to get the order? The police CAN remove a child under certain circumstances without this court order (they have 72 hours to get a court order after the fact)

This doesn't excuse the terrible fuck ups of late, of course.

Yes FS will never be allowed to be in soul custody of a child again, no doubt about that. If she does have any more children, she might be allowed supervised contact or something, but SS will always keep an incredibly close eye on it if that did happen. More likely a baby would be taken at birth. They can't stop her having babies, but she will never be allowed to be in soul custody ever again it's too great a risk.

What makes you think ss will keep a close eye on her ?? They've done a pretty crap job so far.

I'm astounded that people are excusing FS due to her low intelligence, with one post even saying they hope she goes on to have a happy life, unbelievable.

I am actually quite angry about the low IQ defence. Why would a low IQ equate to the propensity to cruelty? At what “number” low IQ does someone get a free pass? Surely if someone is incompetent then they do not stand trial. If someone is competent, then they have to face justice in a court of law. If you are going to excuse criminals on the basis of low intelligence, then you are going to have to empty most jails.

[quote danni0509]@Itsnotover I know straightaway which posters have personal experience of LD / IQ and what it means for a person and those that don’t reading the responses on here.[/quote]
Whatever it "means for a person", it should mean that they are never, ever left with a child in their sole care.

Regarding the mother's intelligence, I note that there are people on this thread who believe they know her level of intelligence better than the clinical psychologist who assessed her. And yes, most people of low intelligence do not harm children, but they are generally significantly more compliant and suggestible than average, as was found to be the case for the mother, meaning that it was easier for someone with criminal intentions such as her partner to manipulate her and convince her that what she (Brockhill) was doing was normal and right.

@peaceanddove

A condition of Frankie's release from prison should be that she undergoes surgical sterilisation.

Totally agree.