Tustin and Hughes thread 2

[Bagelsandbrie]

Continued from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4416690-Emma-Tustin-is-a-murderer

It's really heart breaking to think that even after she had beaten poor little Arthur to a pulp & dragged him in & out of the hallway / sitting room & back that his father's reaction was to slap his head. I can't get past this.

All those poor children living with inadequate abusive parents today. How I wish we could give them better lives.

@HPFA I know. I read some of the threads and I am shocked.

I know it's hard to be a step patent. So much so that I also know I would not date someone with children if my circumstances changed as I fear I would not be a good step parent. It takes a very special type of person to truly excel at it. And I am a calm, patient v loving mother who has never once laid a finger on my dc in anger. We did not use things like naughty steps etc either. But parenting can stretch you to the max even when you'd walk over coals for them. So I would worry that I may not have it in me to be a good patent to someone else's children.

Yet so so so many people getting into incredibly difficult blended family situations with not much reflection until it's too late

[quote NalPolishRemover]@HPFA I know. I read some of the threads and I am shocked.

I know it's hard to be a step patent. So much so that I also know I would not date someone with children if my circumstances changed as I fear I would not be a good step parent. It takes a very special type of person to truly excel at it. And I am a calm, patient v loving mother who has never once laid a finger on my dc in anger. We did not use things like naughty steps etc either. But parenting can stretch you to the max even when you'd walk over coals for them. So I would worry that I may not have it in me to be a good patent to someone else's children.

Yet so so so many people getting into incredibly difficult blended family situations with not much reflection until it's too late[/quote]
@NalPolishRemover

I don't have a problem at all with the people seeking advice and support because they're finding it tough - that's completely normal. It's the callousness that can lie behind the advice given that I find so shocking.

Someone was in a situation where the stepchild had lived with them for years, they were splitting up and the child wanted to stay with the stepmother and her family rather than move out with the father - it was clear the father didn't want her. And a lot of the advice was "she's not your responsibility any more, just tell her she has to go and let him deal with it." Like we were talking about a dog not a vulnerable child.

In my NCT group there was a mother who had a stepchild and after the baby was born I asked her "Oh, when will L... be visiting to see him?" And the reply was "oh, there isn't room for her to stay anymore." They were living in a beautiful, expensive house, not a bedsit!

@Meruem

I’ve just read the sentencing remarks linked on the other thread and he only needs to do two thirds of his sentence, minus remand time. So he’ll be out in under 13 years. It’s not enough.

I’ve also never seen the point of concurrent sentences (and I worked in the CJS for years). Serving 2 sentences at once doesn’t make it any harder for the prisoner. Effectively you get away with whatever the lesser sentence is for. It should be consecutive.

I’ve always been baffled by concurrent sentences @Meruem. I remember my mum explaining what they were to me when I was about 10 and Rose West was sentenced and it came up …. They’re a complete waste of the judge’s breath! In something as serious as this all sentences should be consecutive, even if that involves sentencing a criminal to something illogical and impossible like 128 or 276 or 329 years in prison.

@NalPolishRemover

It's really heart breaking to think that even after she had beaten poor little Arthur to a pulp & dragged him in & out of the hallway / sitting room & back that his father's reaction was to slap his head. I can't get past this.

All those poor children living with inadequate abusive parents today. How I wish we could give them better lives.

It's just horrific. They probably didn't know how to show him affection, just how to inflict more pain on him.

Sorry - this is probably totally wrong (I’ve not followed the case as closely as some on here) but I wonder if the fact that Arthur’s mum was in jail acted as a bit of a tragic red herring - especially with the School.
If you were looking into the sudden fixation with violence and being killed by a young pupil, and it transpired that their mother was in prison for murder and that they’d even witnessed a previous violent attack, well I that it’s a fairy logical conclusion that that’s the cause of the behaviour. It could easily effect his eating habits too. Only in this case it wasn’t the cause, it was blocking an absolutely shocking, unimaginable truth. Obviously it doesn’t explain bruises, but I wonder if they were so certain they knew the root of Arthur’s misery that they hindered themselves from looking for other explanations. And if that is the case then something needs to be done to address it.
Although even if the above was part of the problem it’s still shocking that there wasn’t a plan in place for him and that school attendance didn’t flag up very serious concerns.

I agree that I’d rather see sentences of 350 years than concurrent ones. They’re separate crimes and therefore should serve time for each one separately.

I have been thinking about this, and the footage of them both on the police camera with Tustin talking. I think they’d beaten Arthur unconscious before. They obviously thought he’d just wake up like he’d done before (if my assumption is correct) and that’s why they both seem so calm / laid back. I bet Hughes had knocked him out previously and revived him with a drink and a prod / smack. That’s why he thought it would work this time.

This had never occurred to me before, but it does make sense. They must have been shitting themselves when they realised Arthur wasn't going to come round this time. Vile bastards. I hope there was a great welcome party for them when they got back to prison after being sentenced.

Does anybody know- will they stay in the same prison or will they now be moved?

Does anybody know- will they stay in the same prison or will they now be moved?

From what I have read, Tustin will begin her sentence in the same prison she was already on but may well be moved. Those details will obviously be kept secret.
Apparently, she has tried to commit suicide twice and has been described as a ‘very scared and frightened young woman’ because of the bullying she has been subjected to so far. So at least that’s something. I’m very glad she is currently living in fear.

Sentences are also being reviewed as they have been described as too lenient. I think they will both die in prison. Either at the hands of someone else, or themselves.

@LongRoseAhead

Sorry - this is probably totally wrong (I’ve not followed the case as closely as some on here) but I wonder if the fact that Arthur’s mum was in jail acted as a bit of a tragic red herring - especially with the School. If you were looking into the sudden fixation with violence and being killed by a young pupil, and it transpired that their mother was in prison for murder and that they’d even witnessed a previous violent attack, well I that it’s a fairy logical conclusion that that’s the cause of the behaviour. It could easily effect his eating habits too. Only in this case it wasn’t the cause, it was blocking an absolutely shocking, unimaginable truth. Obviously it doesn’t explain bruises, but I wonder if they were so certain they knew the root of Arthur’s misery that they hindered themselves from looking for other explanations. And if that is the case then something needs to be done to address it. Although even if the above was part of the problem it’s still shocking that there wasn’t a plan in place for him and that school attendance didn’t flag up very serious concerns.

I said the other day that I'd put money on Hughes using this to mask things. My father was a skilled abuser - he could pull the wool over peoples eyes very easily and he'd have done exactly that.

Add in lockdown and the issues around it and I think it would actually have been frighteningly easy for him to con people into thinking all was ok in terms of his parenting.

@JustLyra

I agree 100%.

Hughes comes across as the easily manipulated docile idiot.

He is far from that, the best abusers always look like the victim of someone else.

I don't think it's any coincedence that this man was linked to 2 female murderers.

[quote Onthedunes]@JustLyra

I agree 100%.

Hughes comes across as the easily manipulated docile idiot.

He is far from that, the best abusers always look like the victim of someone else.

I don't think it's any coincedence that this man was linked to 2 female murderers.[/quote]
I don't think so either.

I've avoided quite a bit of the coverage because he reminds me so so much of my father (every woman he dated/married not only tolerated him abusing their/his children, but actively doing so themselves as well).

The fact he sent the text about ending poor Arthur is very, very calculating to me.
It struck me as how to kill his own child, but get a considerably smaller jail time if they got caught because he didn't actually physically inflict the final blow.

@Tryagainplease I hope to god you are right they die in prison ....if there is any justice they will!!

@JustLyra

Yes the power of suggestion.

More calculatiing than people think.

Everyone will know who they are if they are ever released, him in particular as he'll look the same in his 40s. It's not like releasing Thompson and Venables as an adult with new identities - word gets around.

Yeah he'll still look like Odd Bod out of Carry on Screaming.

Shouldn't come out in his 40's.

How many years has he denied Arthur ?

@ToughTittyWhompus

I agree that I’d rather see sentences of 350 years than concurrent ones. They’re separate crimes and therefore should serve time for each one separately.

I'm pretty sure this is what happens in America (though I may be wrong)

[quote NalPolishRemover]@HPFA I know. I read some of the threads and I am shocked.

I know it's hard to be a step patent. So much so that I also know I would not date someone with children if my circumstances changed as I fear I would not be a good step parent. It takes a very special type of person to truly excel at it. And I am a calm, patient v loving mother who has never once laid a finger on my dc in anger. We did not use things like naughty steps etc either. But parenting can stretch you to the max even when you'd walk over coals for them. So I would worry that I may not have it in me to be a good patent to someone else's children.

Yet so so so many people getting into incredibly difficult blended family situations with not much reflection until it's too late[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly with your last bit and somewhat with the first. So many people seem willing to move their kids in with someone they barely know.

I know a couple in the US. She's got 3 children, he's got one he doesn't see. She moved in with him after 3 weeks of knowing him and her youngest was calling him dad. Since he has a drink problem , the honeymoon period was over rather quickly.

Why would you not get to know someone slowly over time rather than throwing someone a into your child's life when you don't bloody know them yourself????

On the the dunes that's a bit good point re poor Arthur already having serious injuries.
As far as I am sure aware no one has actually grilled Hughes and said, did you not see your own sons legs shaking, did you not worry about his eating which you claim your innocent of, but then wonder how he had the energy to stand all day?
How can you claim to be worried about one but not the other?
Let's hope the sentence increased.

I also Csnt see the issue with castration, to think they could have Brought yet another child into those world, his one and her four.

I think one of of the problems is fairly reflective, rounded people do tend to think others are the same ish or on the same page as them.
If you have experienced parents that truly love you even if they are drunks it's quite different to literally having no one love you.

@Drinkingallthewine, I agree 100% with your comments on TH and his performance as a father.

Since his mother seems to have decided ET was the problem here, and her son was easily led, I assume his upbringing was warped in some way.

I wonder if the fact that Arthur’s mum was in jail acted as a bit of a tragic red herring - especially with the School.

@LongRoseAhead, I agree with you. The school were looking back at his mum's murder conviction as the cause of Arthur's fears, not at the real life situation Arthur was telling everyone about.

I think Arthur had the gift of seeing things as they really were.

He knew nobody in that house loved him, and he knew nobody was going to feed him.

And he was right about his father's intention to kill him.

Following the discovery, the baby was removed from the parents and was taken into foster care. She has since been returned to the parents but remains under the protection of Hampshire County Council by way of an interim care order.

The couple are said to be engaging with agencies and no concerns have been raised.

The judge was told that the pair have undergone counselling, with the father attending anger management sessions.

In mitigation for the mother, Sarah Ellis said the family were amidst a “very stressful situation at the time of the incident”, with housing issues and job worries.

She added that “whatever she (the mother) did or failed to do on this occasion is holey out of character”.

While, in mitigation for the father, Rupert Hallowes said: “A combination of stressful events had built up to whatever occurred in the household that day, it was undoubtedly not his intention to hurt (the baby).”

He added that the incident was “short lived”.

The father was given a two-year prison sentence suspended for two years, 300 hours of unpaid work and 15 rehabilitation days. The mother was handed a 12-month prison sentence suspended for two years.

@Chakraleaf, this is horrific.

Clearly there are people in the court system and in social services who are criminally stupid.

If they had done this to a dog they would be behind bars and ordered never to have a dog again.