Tustin and Hughes thread 2

[Bagelsandbrie]

Continued from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4416690-Emma-Tustin-is-a-murderer

I can’t imagine how awful the jury must feel after watching so many clips, most of them probably so much more upsetting than those released. I really hope they have access to support and counselling.

Yes, @Bagelsandbrie. I have really felt for the jury in all of this. I wondered if anyone had to leave part way through when they realised this was more than they could bear. I don't know if that's allowed to happen? I have never heard about a juror's experiences so I imagine they're barred from discussing them.

That cctv is disgusting. Scoffing ice creams like they haven't a care in the world . I wonder why they keep looking towards the camera?

Tustin dealt the final blow. Hughes wasn’t there. If they had both been there then they would have probably received manslaughter sentence unless one of them said the other did it. So many precedents for this unfortunately. So sorry no one believed you Arthur.

I’ve just seen (Daily Fail which I wouldn’t normally read) that Tustin took a photo of Arthur after he died to send to Hughes. What kind of a sick twisted individual does this? I feel sick and angry beyond belief. That poor poor little boy never stood a chance with her and him

"@bagelsandbrie I guess what I’m trying to say is if this is considered “normal” (as in the same way the hairdresser and boyfriend turned a blind eye to the abuse of Arthur in their own home - apart from giving him half a sodding glass of water 🙄😡) then how do we change that? How do we start at grass roots saying speaking to children like that isn’t ever okay? Smacking children isn’t ever okay? Attitudes need to change."

I remember watching a documentary about Karen Matthews. The chief of the police force that dealt with the case said that we are all told now not to judge the way people live. He said because of this there is a whole swathe of society who think it's ok to not work, have lots of children with different partners for the money, let your children have poor school attendance etc etc , he said if we want anything to change then we need to start judging and saying it's not acceptable to live that way. And I totally agree with him.

[quote ScreamingMeMe]I'm so glad they got hefty sentences (although it could never be long enough).

Big boohoo that she has been bullied in prison and has felt suicidal. Deal with it, you evil woman.

Emma Tustin sentenced to a minimum of 29 years for killing 6-year-old stepson

f7td5.app.goo.gl/MML73e[/quote]
@ScreamingMeMe - they should both never be released and I’d happily sign a petition that they both stay locked up until they both die, similar to how they treated Arthur. I’d use similar scare tactics like Isis did like bring them out to swimming pools before they drowned victims. Really make them suffer.

There have been a few posts on these threads saying that Tustin didn't want Arthur to 'win', so prevented him being cared for by his grandparents.

Now she's being imprisoned for 29 years - what do you think her mindset is now? That Arthur 'won' in the end?

That will surely drive her to madness. There is nothing she can do to him now in 'retaliation'

[quote ufucoffee]"@bagelsandbrie I guess what I’m trying to say is if this is considered “normal” (as in the same way the hairdresser and boyfriend turned a blind eye to the abuse of Arthur in their own home - apart from giving him half a sodding glass of water 🙄😡) then how do we change that? How do we start at grass roots saying speaking to children like that isn’t ever okay? Smacking children isn’t ever okay? Attitudes need to change."

I remember watching a documentary about Karen Matthews. The chief of the police force that dealt with the case said that we are all told now not to judge the way people live. He said because of this there is a whole swathe of society who think it's ok to not work, have lots of children with different partners for the money, let your children have poor school attendance etc etc , he said if we want anything to change then we need to start judging and saying it's not acceptable to live that way. And I totally agree with him. [/quote]
Me too. That’s exactly what i think.

I also don't buy the "we musn't judge" line. It gets trotted out a lot on here. "Judgey pants" blah blah. Yep, sorry, everyone judges. Sometimes it's useful and it's also part of humanity and civilised society. You can still empathise obviously, but doesn't make it OK just because you empathise.

However, wasn't part of the problem with this case, judgements and prejudice against people who live chaotic lives? Because their house was immaculate and they spoke well and she was quite pretty, they didn't think anything was going on.

So not a black and white thing I don't think.

I 100% judge anyone who was physically restraining a small child though and making him stand outside all the time they were having a hair appointment. I think that couple (hairdresser and partner) did judge but didn't say anything in case they got called judgey.

I'm very glad that Hughes and Tustin now have so long to sit on their 'thinking step' about what they have done. I read that Tustin has attempted suicide twice since arrested. Let's hope she never succeeds.

I wonder how much access those in prison have to the news / internet? I’d imagine those at the same prisons as Tustin and Hughes will be very interested to see some of the articles / cctv appearing in the news….!

I don't know about her thinking Arthur won, perhaps but I'm not convinced she's fully realised her crimes yet. I'm not saying she didn't deliberately abuse him etc but if she's a naracist she wouldn't tolerate Arthur not liking her so it's all his fault.

I also hope she's not allowed the easy way out and is made to sit in her thinking cell. She's got lots of thinking to do.

@ForgedInFire

Does anybody else think that the reporting of this case is taking a rather nasty misogynistic turn? From articles about Tustin being a "manipulative black widow" and a lot of comments I've seen on FB outright saying that it's Arthur's mother's fault for being in prison, it seems like Hughes role is being massively downplayed. And then you have his family saying that Tustin was the catalyst and Arthur would be alive if it wasn't for her. That might be true but Hughes had the ultimate responsibility to his child and he actively encouraged and joined in the abuse. I'm not defending Tustin at all- I think she is evil and beyond contempt- I just think Hughes deserves at least as much of the public anger.

I am just as angry with Hughes as I am with Tustin. I have spoken about the case with a couple of people and they all say they think the dad should have been found guilty of murder too.

I get that he wasn't in the house when poor Arthur actually died but he was complicit in the feeding of salt, the standing in the hall, the not having a proper bed etc. He also hurt Arthur by putting pressure on his pressure points. Also burned his teddy and his football shirt.

Surely the feeding of salt and the withholding of water meant they intended for him to die eventually?

I think Hughes' sentence is pathetic and he will be out of prison while he is still relatively young. He won't have to serve the whole term

It doesn’t excuse ignoring abuse but perhaps things aren’t always black and white as we’d like to think

I know someone who was told by social services who made the claim (which they found to be true). All the parent cared about was the fact social services were called. Not the neglect and abuse the child was suffering that could easily be resolved with some support.

You wouldn’t risk the ramifications if you knew nothing would change for the child.
That social services would tell them who reported.
And you had to live next door to them.

@ElfontheShelfisLookingatYou

I don't know about her thinking Arthur won, perhaps but I'm not convinced she's fully realised her crimes yet. I'm not saying she didn't deliberately abuse him etc but if she's a naracist she wouldn't tolerate Arthur not liking her so it's all his fault.

I'm sure she saw no wrong in what she did. Just that she knew society and the law would so tried to cover it all up under the mantle of 'difficult child'.

Ultimately Tustin gave the final blow. But Hughes was the one who should protect Arthur, love him, keep him warm and safe.

His sentence should have equalled hers if not the charge be the same.

Neither Tunstin nor Hughes should have been allowed to have children in their care. Hughes had been abusive to Arthur’s mum and yet was give full custody when she was in prison. Tunstin had had 2 children removed before snd they were never returned to her care. Arthur was already know to be a vulnerable child so should never been left with them.

They clearly both had very controlling personalities which fits the profile for murders. They enjoyed this. I don’t believe Hughes mum who said that if he had never met Emma he would have been fine. There are lots of very abusive and controlling people out there who destroy other people’s lives. Often they get stopped before they kill. Read up on the homicide timeline.

The thing that broke me was destroying his beloved teddy in front of him. Who does that to a child?

Last night my little boy said mummy can I sleep in your bed? Obviously I said yes. We were lucky to escape an abusive situation. It is hard to do. Society does not protect children well and that’s the truth.

"Society does not protect children well and that’s the truth."

I think that that sums it up tbh.

"November 2019: Hughes and his mother, Joanne, met staff at Arthur’s school to discuss their growing concerns about his behaviour.

Teachers reported Arthur was becoming “fixated” with his dad disappearing from his life, or killing him, and had also become obsessed with death, murder and guns.

That is from a "Timeline" in the Guardian. It just about blames Arthur doesn't it?

His Mum had killed someone FFS!-or did he know nothing about that?

@EvilPea

You wouldn’t risk the ramifications if you knew nothing would change for the child. That social services would tell them who reported. And you had to live next door to them.

Another reason people don’t report is fear of making it worse.

When I was a child our neighbours stopped reporting things because nothing happened in terms of social services removing us, but they could hear the aftermath of it.

One moved because she was convinced she was one day going to hear my father kill either my mother or one of us kids while trying to make us confess we’d told some snitch which had brought the social round. I

In a letter to my grandparents she estimated that she’d called the police 14/15 times in the middle of incidents and had reported at least 5/6 more directly to social services.

She genuinely believed she was making things worse for us.

@EvilPea
You wouldn’t risk the ramifications if you knew nothing would change for the child.
That social services would tell them who reported.
And you had to live next door to them."

Social Services will not tell families who has reported them. It's perfectly simple to make an anonymous referral them.

may he rest in peace now

[quote ufucoffee]@EvilPea
You wouldn’t risk the ramifications if you knew nothing would change for the child.
That social services would tell them who reported.
And you had to live next door to them."

Social Services will not tell families who has reported them. It's perfectly simple to make an anonymous referral them. [/quote]
In the case I know

They did. It wasn’t a malicious report. They upheld it. But they did.

They shouldn’t. Of course they shouldn’t. But that case. They did.

We should all feel strong enough to report and go “you shouldn’t be doing what your doing, if your doing nothing wrong it won’t matter if they talk to you and your child”

But it doesn’t work like that does it. These aren’t reasonable rational people.