Tustin and Hughes thread 2

[Bagelsandbrie]

Continued from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4416690-Emma-Tustin-is-a-murderer

Does anybody else think that the reporting of this case is taking a rather nasty misogynistic turn? From articles about Tustin being a "manipulative black widow" and a lot of comments I've seen on FB outright saying that it's Arthur's mother's fault for being in prison, it seems like Hughes role is being massively downplayed. And then you have his family saying that Tustin was the catalyst and Arthur would be alive if it wasn't for her. That might be true but Hughes had the ultimate responsibility to his child and he actively encouraged and joined in the abuse. I'm not defending Tustin at all- I think she is evil and beyond contempt- I just think Hughes deserves at least as much of the public anger.

The problem with this is that those of us who grew up with abusive parents, who were never prosecuted, might be forced to enable contact between our abusive parents and our children (who we at the moment can protect from ever meeting them). I would rather die than subject my children to that.

I think you’ve quoted the wrong poster.

@hivemindneeded

Absolutely, and I am slowly. But by having strict boundaries and changing what I thought was acceptable for my own kids I had cut myself off from some people. It's a good thing because my kids get to be safer and more secure and emotionally resilient and have more confidence and things like that, but it would be wrong for me to say it hasn't come at a cost. As a single parent now too it is lonely sometimes not going to lie, i think loneliness is a small price to pay for my kids to be happy and safe, but Can see why others might not be happy with that cost as well. It's easy for me to see inside that mindset though, I have changed my mind on so many things and my life in so many ways. I was only open to that because of the pain I was in back then. There have to be better ways for people to be open to changing things than to be broken apart by trauma. Better to open slowly like a well cared for flower than to break apart like a dropped piggy bank. The only way to break the cycle of abuse is to have a circuit breaker, but that doesn't mean the circuit breaker has to be broken themselves. Change can be made under positive conditions as well as negative ones. The best programmes are the ones which don't judge you for being wrong, or tell you there is a right way, but just give you the option to try something new with the right support to give it a fair shot and see if this different way might work better for you. But nobody has the time to teach parents or guide parents, to get into the thick of parenting with them, any more. It's all about you 'should' and 'shouldn't' do things the wrong way, and if you do do it the wrong Way the Evil social worker will come take your baby. Of course you would be angry if you thought somebody was asking a social worker to come and take your precious baby? You know your not the best parent, but your doing your best, how dare people judge and attack you like that? So then it's the accusations at people for 'grassing' because social services are seen as a punishment for doing it wrong not a service to help and guide parents. And any interaction with them is to just get them to leave again as quickly as possible. It's a recipe for hiding issues isn't it? For secrets? I feel so sorry for anyone living like that, paralysed with fear of services, unable to ask tor help from services, worried the neighbours will 'dob them in' if they ask anyone for help and with only other anxious, defensive, confused people to go to for parenting advice some of whom may have abused them themselves. I don't feel any resentment towards those people from my past. I wish I could help the woman who reported me and her kids to live a life which is not fear based, anger, defensiveness, anxiety, shame limited and increasingly insular. I wish I could heal that. But for now I can only hope to heal my own self and to not damage my kids in that way

@Sombra

I wonder if SS didn't investigate more thoroughly is because the stereotypical image of an abused child wasn't there? A clean house, ET and TH come across as articulate in the videos, food (although he wasn't getting it), contact with the school etc? They both just seemed normal at first appearance

I think in many cases this is true - abuse is missed because people seem intelligent/ affluent - but they don't cone across as remotely intelligent or articulate in those videos. What made you think that?

@ForgedInFire

Does anybody else think that the reporting of this case is taking a rather nasty misogynistic turn? From articles about Tustin being a "manipulative black widow" and a lot of comments I've seen on FB outright saying that it's Arthur's mother's fault for being in prison, it seems like Hughes role is being massively downplayed. And then you have his family saying that Tustin was the catalyst and Arthur would be alive if it wasn't for her. That might be true but Hughes had the ultimate responsibility to his child and he actively encouraged and joined in the abuse. I'm not defending Tustin at all- I think she is evil and beyond contempt- I just think Hughes deserves at least as much of the public anger.

I believe Hughes should have been convicted of murder.

Arthur was going to die, he was already dying when the final blow was struck. Hughes struck many blows to Arthur, bruises, nips, pressure pointing, sitting on him till he couldn't breath, slaps, scutches and thumps, both equally culpable, more so because it was his father.

He is an abomination to nature.

The ammount of bruises on that boy showed both of them are responsible for his murder. Would Arthur have survived if someone had got him that morning before having his head battered in ? Maybe.

But he was never going to be saved, Hughes and Tustin enabled each other.
He prevented Arthur from being saved.

He was a spineless cocklodger who betrayed his son in the worst way possible. For that he should have got murder. The fear and confusion that Arthur must have felt from his protector turning into this monster must have been terrifying.
Yes Hughes was not there that day but his actions or lack of actions to me are akin as to be helping someone to drown their own, helping them hold them down.

I don't believe he was ever a competant father, he was an idiot without a brave bone in his body, unlike his son.

I hope Arthur is looking down on both of them in prison, I don't think Hughes will last two minutes. They both do not deserve to be on this earth and I really hope their days left on earth are forever a living hell.

I think the truly painful thing for me is the pre meditation of making it look like something else, the prolonged abuse to look like something else, their feigned ignorance of what they were doing.

Because of that excuse it meant he was tortured daily before death.

Arthur must have wished for his own death in the end, nobody could endure what he did.

Evil beyond words.

@Naughtynovembertree

Inspite of the rumours about him not being in a safe home with josh real mum, the pictures of him with his mum are the first ones I've seen where he looks truly happy and she does gaze at him like an in love mum..

It isn't just the dehumanising part, either. It is a horrible way to die. He was being starved but also being poisoned, and dehydrated by it, particularly as they denied him water to drink.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_poisoning

@ThousandsOfTulips

Yes he was being starved to death, poisoned with salt and denied water.

He was extremely ill and on top of that being physically battered.

I think they hoped he would just expire and no questions asked, apart from how they possibly managed to look after a very disturbed boy.
They expected sympathy for heroically putting up with him for so long.

Absolutely deluded, two people who became addicted to sadism and were oblivious to right and wrong.

I hope the same treatment is afforded to them by the people who will be their protectors, no mercy.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

The problem with this is that those of us who grew up with abusive parents, who were never prosecuted, might be forced to enable contact between our abusive parents and our children (who we at the moment can protect from ever meeting them). I would rather die than subject my children to that.

I think you’ve quoted the wrong poster.

No; that's how quoted posted are displayed automatically. It doesn't imply you made the original comment that you'd put in bold in your post.

Other way around I mean! Anyway it's just a function of how Mumsnet formats quoted posts.

[quote Onthedunes]@ThousandsOfTulips

Yes he was being starved to death, poisoned with salt and denied water.

He was extremely ill and on top of that being physically battered.

I think they hoped he would just expire and no questions asked, apart from how they possibly managed to look after a very disturbed boy.
They expected sympathy for heroically putting up with him for so long.

Absolutely deluded, two people who became addicted to sadism and were oblivious to right and wrong.

I hope the same treatment is afforded to them by the people who will be their protectors, no mercy.[/quote]
Yep. At the very least I hope they're fed not a single meal or drink in prison that isn't laced with tons of salt. Let's see how long they can survive it.

@PrinzessinCressida

What really gets me is that there must be other children right now experiencing what Arthur went through, in varying degrees - hopefully not about to be murdered, but tortured and in pain, feeling scared and confused and unloved. It feels so hopeless. I wish we could stop it.

That's the worst part of it all. It is happening all around us. And it will affect those poor children for their whole lives, even if they survive it.

It's shameful that we allow this to continue. In Denmark, for example, children taken into care have equal outcomes to those living with their families. As it should be. It's not some impossibility that can't be achieved. They just prioritise what to spend money on far better than we do, spend it more efficiently, and spend more to make sure services actually work. Result? Much happier society, on every objective measure in the international data.

We don't have to reinvent the wheel. Just like with other failing UK services (mental health, physical health, education) the models that work and have been proven to work exist in continental Europe. The part that's lacking is the will of the electorate to ensure it is implemented.

Thanks, Timtan

@Onthedunes I agree that Hughes should have been found guilty of murder and I cannot understand how he was found not guilty on the charge of failing to provide food and water. That evil woman was his girlfriend but all the legal responsibilities for Arthur surely fell into his lap. If that poor boy was starved and dehydrated (as we know he was) that was his responsibility. Let alone all of the proof of cruelty that he inflicted on Arthur. Hughes has gotten off far too lightly.

@vickyp0llard

Surely if you choose to work in the police it is literally your job to deal with scary people like this? If you don't want to deal with horrible/intimidating members of the public then a career change might be in order....

Sadly a lot of new recruits simply aren't up to the job

They most likely didn't want to get rid of him as he contributed money (child benefits etc) to fund their take aways and tattoos or whatever the fuck they were spending it on other than him. Arthurs murder and the 19 month old baby that died last year when the mum left to party for 6 days have deeply affected me and just makes me question how these can go off the radar. I honestly don't know where to begin with but all I know this is all fucked up from top to bottom.

My 2.5 yo had his HV review 2 months ago over a video call and he isn't due to start state nursery until next year unless I send him privately in the next few months which in currently registering him. A few unfortunate toddlers across the country right now the same age as my dc could be experiencing daily abuse and it would go unnoticed until they reach nursery age which it could be too late and that's a big "if" the nursery picks up on these bruises or behaviours that raise an alarm about their well-being in their home life.

There's no follow up, even the most basic health visitor appointments are still done online. This country has buried its head in sand for too long hiding from covid and not providing security for the most vulnerable human beings in our society that don't have a voice. There's photographic evidence, concerns from relatives and I think even from school in Arthur's case that was ignored? So many red flags, so many warnings and yet still an avoidable deaths So what hope does toddlers have like the 19 month old or other toddlers who are experiencing abuse right now have where we might wake up one day reading in the news that another innocent child has died at the hands of the people and the country that was meant to protect them. It just makes me physically sick that in this day and age and in this wealth (country wealth) no child should be left hungry, feeling cold let alone neglected, beaten, starved, tortured and then killed. What kind of fucked up system is this. I think from the social workers to the police that ignored these should all be prosecuted for not doing their jobs and stricter policies should be put in place.

Drunkcow I agree ^ completely

I read all of the first thread yesterday. I have cried over what had happened to poor little Arthur. It's so painful to think that he died alone and unloved, killed by the very people who were supposed to care for and protect him.

Poor little boy.

I can't imagine the agony his biological mother is going through.

@Chocaholic9

I read all of the first thread yesterday. I have cried over what had happened to poor little Arthur. It's so painful to think that he died alone and unloved, killed by the very people who were supposed to care for and protect him.

Poor little boy.

I can't imagine the agony his biological mother is going through.

Hughes didn't seem to say a bad word at all about Olivia, while her drinking was mentioned he also mentioned a couple of times he believed Olivia had PND which had caused her issues initially.

So very upsetting.

@ForgedInFire

Does anybody else think that the reporting of this case is taking a rather nasty misogynistic turn? From articles about Tustin being a "manipulative black widow" and a lot of comments I've seen on FB outright saying that it's Arthur's mother's fault for being in prison, it seems like Hughes role is being massively downplayed. And then you have his family saying that Tustin was the catalyst and Arthur would be alive if it wasn't for her. That might be true but Hughes had the ultimate responsibility to his child and he actively encouraged and joined in the abuse. I'm not defending Tustin at all- I think she is evil and beyond contempt- I just think Hughes deserves at least as much of the public anger.

I totally agree.

I grew up with a father who enabled my abusive and sadistic mother and would dole out violence whenever she wanted it, usually for no reason, and I have memories of her smirking at us while he was beating us.

Then she left him for someone else and he acted like a victim for the rest of his life and "suddenly" saw her true colours.

Hughes reminds me of my father. Weak. Pathetic. So in love with a monster that he would do anything for her, including hurt and torment his own children.

I totally agree with other posters that Hughes should have got life in prison. It just so happened that Tustin dealt the final blow but it easily could have been Hughes who did it. They were the joint perpetrators. He even sent a text to her saying "end him".

Why did she hate him so much? How and why and when did his father start supporting this?

Agree dad is utterly pathetic and disgusting, Arthur was his son.
It sickens me when family still can't say sorry.
If my dd killed her own child or was complicit id also feel failures as a parent but her darling boy was just ruined by tustin.

And what about Hughes dad? The whole culture seems off to me.
She hasn't condemned her spineless pathetic son.
The dad hasn't either.

Brighton it sounds to me like Arthur started not to like tustin at all.
This was when tustin spent a lot of time in the granny annex, so tustin spun this as her taking on a lot with Olivia in prison and she's taking on a lot but doesn't have to put up with this "naughty" child.
So let's try, thinking chair to help his behavior.

I believe his behaviour was simply that he didn't like her, she was probably oozing contempt and jealousy from the start I imagine before the chair she implemented other nasty negative punishment and he he didn't like her.
That was turned into his behaviour... Which was a besmirch on her image as a loving kind person... Hughes said tustin had done so much for Arthur...

This link is from the Sun, it shows a cctv clip of Hughes and Tustin sitting eating ice creams whilst Arthur spent hours that day in the hallway. I was shocked by how clear the cctv is, I can’t imagine how awful the jury must feel after watching so many clips, most of them probably so much more upsetting than those released. I really hope they have access to support and counselling.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/16934282/evil-dad-stepmum-ice-cream-arthur/amp/

@Chocaholic9

I grew up with a father who enabled my abusive and sadistic mother and would dole out violence whenever she wanted it, usually for no reason, and I have memories of her smirking at us while he was beating us.

Then she left him for someone else and he acted like a victim for the rest of his life and "suddenly" saw her true colours.

Hughes reminds me of my father. Weak. Pathetic. So in love with a monster that he would do anything for her, including hurt and torment his own children.

I totally agree with other posters that Hughes should have got life in prison. It just so happened that Tustin dealt the final blow but it easily could have been Hughes who did it. They were the joint perpetrators. He even sent a text to her saying "end him".

I think they should have got the same sentence too but I suppose the judge had to take into account that only Tustin was actually physically in the house at the time. Both were absolutely responsible for his torture and death.