Crossing the channel in boats

[MarshaBradyo]

Listening to radio re terrible situation on the water but also in camps in France

It all sounds very hard

What would you like to see happen?

I had sort of hoped the suggestion made by a pp upthread that a Gendarme or Police Officer should whip out his/her sidearm and discharge it to put a hole in a boat was made in a light hearted manner or as a joke of some sort…..

If the suggestion was a serious one then…

FatCat

" Getting in a dingy on a beach is not a criminal offence. But deliberately damaging someone else's property is."

OK. So who do these dinghies belong to?

And if the police cannot stop them launching then WTF are they doing there?

Notimagain,
"I had sort of hoped the suggestion made by a pp upthread that a Gendarme or Police Officer should whip out his/her sidearm and discharge it to put a hole in a boat was made in a light hearted manner or as a joke of some sort…..

If the suggestion was a serious one then…"

The whole thing is a joke, and the joke's on us.

We are paying the French police to sit in police cars and take in the fresh air, it seems

I think people forget that they must have contacts here, someone must be coordinating it from this side of the channel
The problem is there are not enough police or services either side to manage the volume of migrants wanting to cross
Again just my opinion

Just one of many articles available on-line highlighting the scale of the problems faced by the French authorities and the efforts they are making to control the problem:

www.lavoixdunord.fr/1105730/article/2021-11-27/calaisis-comment-70-km-de-grillages-ont-pousse-passeurs-et-migrants-prendre-la

@notimagain , can you give a rough translation please?

[quote WayneKorr]@notimagain , can you give a rough translation please?[/quote]
Roughly, it's 'the French did their part in dismantling the Jungle, putting up fences for miles, heavily policing the tunnel and everything else, even pressurising sports retailers to not sell pleasure inflatables and suchlike in coastal areas, which is why desperate people go the smugglers who have larger dinghies instead'.

I honestly dont think any country could stop this happening. They would need soldiers or police covering every beach 24 hours a day. I heard a French officer on the radio the other day say once they are on the beach it's already too late. I'm sure that's true.

Err…I’ll give the gist ….the thrust of the article is that over recent years the French have put in place 70 km of high security fencing around the Channel Tunnel terminal and around the port area to stop/reduce illegal immigrants from trying to get to the UK by stowing away on Boats/in vehicles (just a reminder there have been multiple posts claiming the French don’t do anything).

This fencing/hardening of the ports areas probably the reason people smugglers have changed their MO to using inflatables off the beaches.

There are then grumbles various (including from some politicians) about why the migrants still flock to the area - the attractiveness of the UK…

TBH it’s the MSM so the article may be about as accurate or inaccurate as anything you read coming out of the UK but I’d hope it at least gives some idea of what has already been done in northern France to try and stop migrants getting to the UK….

Thank you @NeverDropYourMooncup and @notimagain

Err, s'cuse me, UK has also paid for fencing

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/britain-to-put-up-fence-at-channel-tunnel-port-1.2267269

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33729024

[quote Ellen888]Err, s'cuse me, UK has also paid for fencing

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/britain-to-put-up-fence-at-channel-tunnel-port-1.2267269

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33729024[/quote]
..and that’s why I wrote “the French have put in place”….

It’s an example of what the French regard as the Uk outsourcing it’s Border control - regardless of how it was paid for the not particularly eye pleasing structures are in/around Calais, it to some extent buggers up the daily lives of the French locals……

Maybe if people are so intent on arguing that the French do nothing the fences could be taken down and transplanted onto the UK beaches?

Last time I used the Channel Tunnel in 2019, there were hordes of immigrants in the countryside just outside it. I remember a group of about 30+ sitting on the grass outside the fence. Walking along the roads as well. I remember it being similar in 2017.

The French did not seem to bother with rounding them up which surely they were within their laws to do as they would have been illegally in their country if they hadn’t tried to claim asylum.

They do perform round ups around the ports/beaches.

Problem then as I understand it is if the authorities can’t prove beyond doubt an individual’s country of origin then they can’t be ordered to quit France….and guess how many migrants have lost all their forms of IDs?

So the choice the authorities then have is to lock them up, all of them, in closed prison, or try and persuade them to register and stay in a permanent camp/hostel (there is one near us) whilst trying to gain asylum in France ….The anecdata seems to show that if individuals are intent on getting to the U.K. for whatever reason they have little interest in registering in France or spending much time at all in a French hostel..they head back to the beaches….

I haven’t watched the video yet but what is standard procedure for French police finding a boat

Some posts have says round people up, but another said nothing has been done yet that is actually wrong

Anyway not sure exactly wording of latter.. but what should the police in the video have done?

I don’t know what the exact situation is Marsha but if you transposed the situation as some have described it onto a British beach I think the question would be is it an offense to take a boat (inflatable or otherwise) into the sea and jump into it?

Trying to board a vessel without a ticket is OTOH a different matter and probably one that is literally easier to police.

I get what you’re saying Notim, so now I’m not sure either

Surely launching an unseaworthy, overcrowded vessel, often with children aboard must be an offence?
If not, it should be.

@Maireas

Surely launching an unseaworthy, overcrowded vessel, often with children aboard must be an offence? If not, it should be.

That’s a question for the sailing types and the lawyers expert in French law.

Maritime law is completely different to the legal system and is considerably older.

I also don’t think there is the will to stop these people endangering their own lives. It is one this to cross the Chanel during a sunny day but quite another at this time of the year. It is treacherous in the winter as well as being one of the busiest shipping routes in the world.

This aricle also highlights the problems the French police are facing

Police say they are struggling to fight trafficking networks that have ‘become professional’ in record time.
www.politico.eu/article/people-smugglers-france-police-channel-migration/

notimagain,

The concept of "seaworthiness" does not cover inflatables as they are not deemed to be "vessels" viz;

Q. What Is Included as a Vessel Under the Law?
A. The definition of “vessel” under (Maritime) law is also broader than one might expect. Courts have held that the term “vessel” includes these categories, among others:
Cargo ships
Cruise ships
Offshore oil rigs
Tugboats
Fishing vessels
Charter boats
Barges, even without motors and sleeping quarters
Moored boats, including casino ships

So the people-smugglers are neatly skirting around Maritime Law it seems.

@Maireas

Surely launching an unseaworthy, overcrowded vessel, often with children aboard must be an offence? If not, it should be.

No, because if you make it an offence to need help (which is what it would effectively become), all that means is that fewer captains call for help and more innocents die. At least at present, they know if everything starts going to shit, a distress call will get not just the RNLI/HM Coastguard/Navy/Army/Whatever helping but, under Maritime Law, any vessel in the area coming to assist.

DP's GF was in the Merchant Navy and RN. It's something along the lines of as long as you aren't going to sink your own vessel, the master of the ship must render assistance to any person at sea and to proceed with all possible speed.

And, going by the people we know who make a living on the water, to actively turn away from a vessel in distress would be something they'd never be able to do for fear of the consequences to them next time they're out - they're a superstitious lot. Goes with attending memorials for friends far too frequently, I guess.

Just for interest, if anyone wants to know how busy the English Channel is, then check this map, updated in real time.
To find out details of any of the vessels click on them.

www.bognorregisbeach.co.uk/live-shipping-map-english-channel

Thanks Ellen and NeverDropYourMoonCup. I was just so shocked at the sight of that inflatable, setting off across the channel, overcrowded and with children on board in shocking weather.
I know rescuers (including nearby fishermen) have done their utmost to help many in distress, but more tragedies will happen.