Curious about (lack of) mat leave in USA. How do women cope?

[Ed1n]

Reading another thread about WFH with a newborn which got me thinking. I’m on mat leave and cannot imagine returning to work at twelve weeks, which is I understand, fairly typical (even best case) in US. Any stateside mumsnetters able to give insight into how long most women really take, what is childcare provision like etc?

It seems such a different set up! How do you breast feed, cope with sleep deprivation and decision making.

Googling suggests Estonia is the generous country for paid mat leave. USA the worst.

@Lemonsyellow

I had my DC in the U.K in the ‘90s when maternity leave was just six months. I was on 90% of my pay for six weeks and statutory maternity pay of about £50 a week for the rest of the time. I went back to work when my DC were six months.

I actually think six months leave is about right. Not sure about the low SMP though, that would discourage many people from taking the full six months, just wouldn’t be financially viable.

@Megalameg
Here you go
www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/rc11_eng.pdf
Countries where children are doing the best = countries with generous parental leave and subsidized daycare. Facts matter!

@NichyNoo

I gave birth in Belgium where mat leave is 15 weeks. It’s just normal. Babies go to crèche and cope just fine. I personally couldn’t take a full year off like people do in the UK. I’d be too bored.

Good thing we have tiny brains here in the uk, so the boredom doesn't bother us.

@PrincessNutella I know a few people who have used maternity covers to speed up their career paths.

They got the extra experience they wouldn't normally get and either used that to get a perm role elsewhere or were in post and got the job if the woman didn't return to work.

Maternity covers are great development opportunities.

@HanukahMatata

You realise those “happiness” studies don’t measure actual happiness right? They’re more a measure of having basic needs met. There is no mass world happiness survey.
All the countries that do this were already successful - that’s why they had the ability to trial it - that doesn’t mean the policies themselves have been successful, that’s still up in the air. The countries wealth lead to these policies being requested and tried - not the other way around. Countries aren’t succeeding because of paid maternity leave and subsidised childcare, they succeeded and now they’re providing them. That proves nothing about their long term viability other than the wealth to implement them already existed.

And It’s a straight up fact that scandi countries have a very high divorce rate and an even higher family breakup rate as couples with kids not marrying over there is much more common. If you don’t think everyone being at work all day with no time for their kids and valuing their promotion more than their family life contributes to this then your just seeing what you want to see.

I know you cant change sex and think women rights matter. I also think who you ally with matters. Campaigners like Julie Bindel also know that. Andrea Dworkin made a fatal error when she allied with the Christian right.

high divorce rate does not mean higher unhappyness imo - quite the opposite.

[quote Twizbe]@PrincessNutella I know a few people who have used maternity covers to speed up their career paths.

They got the extra experience they wouldn't normally get and either used that to get a perm role elsewhere or were in post and got the job if the woman didn't return to work.

Maternity covers are great development opportunities. [/quote]

This is very common in NHS.
An existing staff member "acts up" in a more senior role whilst post holder on mat leave.
Allows them to gain necessary skills and experience to move onto another role when post holder returns.
Surely it's an advantage for more people to gain skills and experience?
They then have

@Megalameg or maybe it means women wont put up with shit marriages?

@Megalameg
No evidence then, just opinions. That's fine. But you have ZERO evidence to back up what you say.
Actually the measure was of child wellbeing, not happiness alone. But, yes, happiness too. Sorry you don't like the measure and you've decided they couldn't possibly really be happy because you don't like their social set up.
Divorce rates are high because people aren't trapped in marriages because women work and earn their own money and can afford childcare.
I mean, think about yourself as a tradwife, you're trapped! If your marriage breaks down, what would you do? If you have young kids, you're especially screwed.
www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/when-divorce-is-an-opportunity/552230/

@HanukahMatata please don't tar all SAHP with the same brush. We're not all like @Megalameg

Some of us aren't trapped, aren't screwed if our marriage breaks down and firmly believe that there is no 'right' when it comes to working or not with a family.

@HanukahMatata

I’ve obviously touched a nerve. If you think divorced parents and kids in daycare all day is what’s best for kids then you do you. I guess I place more value on family than that.

I’ve said all I’ve got to say and we’re not going to agree so I’ll stop replying now. Try not to work to hard.

@purplesequins

There is no way a high rate of broken families can possibly be a good thing. God knows what kinds of things these kids really think about the situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s responsible for a lot of the angry young people around today.

[quote Megalameg]@HanukahMatata

I’ve obviously touched a nerve. If you think divorced parents and kids in daycare all day is what’s best for kids then you do you. I guess I place more value on family than that.

I’ve said all I’ve got to say and we’re not going to agree so I’ll stop replying now. Try not to work to hard.[/quote]
I just have no words. You're giving SAHP a really bad name on this thread.

@Twizbe

I never ever said I was against working with a family - I said my family shouldn’t have to pay so you get payed not to work or pay someone else to look after your kids when we don’t ask for either of those things.

[quote Twizbe]**@HanukahMatata* please don't tar all SAHP with the same brush. We're not all like @Megalameg*

Some of us aren't trapped, aren't screwed if our marriage breaks down and firmly believe that there is no 'right' when it comes to working or not with a family. [/quote]
No, I don't. BUT it is a fact that SAHPs do take a huge risk. You may personally have a good set up. But there's no getting away from the fact that the Scandi countries, with both parents working and affordable childcare, allow women to escape bad marriages in a way that they could never do in the US or, to a lesser extent, in the UK>

[quote Megalameg]@HanukahMatata

I’ve obviously touched a nerve. If you think divorced parents and kids in daycare all day is what’s best for kids then you do you. I guess I place more value on family than that.

I’ve said all I’ve got to say and we’re not going to agree so I’ll stop replying now. Try not to work to hard.[/quote]
You have indeed touched a nerve. I believe in facts and evidence, not prejudice and bias.
Facts matter!

@HanukahMatata I do agree with you that SAHPs need to be sure to protect themselves and go into it with eyes wide open. Also that they never do it without being married first.

I just meant don't think we're all like @Megalameg and think working parents are the devil.

I'm not defending their posts as they are some batshit cray cray stuff but saying SAHP are trapped etc doesn't help.

[quote Megalameg]@purplesequins

There is no way a high rate of broken families can possibly be a good thing. God knows what kinds of things these kids really think about the situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s responsible for a lot of the angry young people around today.[/quote]
Any evidence for that statement?
Hmm, where are there the highest levels of youth crime? Is it in the countries with good parental leave and subsidized daycare?

I dont agree that taxes should not be used for maternity leave or daycare. But I do think we should as a society be questioning more how we want children to be brought up.
Personally I always wonder why we push women in benefits into low income work, so they can pay other low income women to look after their kids.

@HanukahMatata

The highest levels of youth crime are in the poorest countries - which are not in a position to offer daycare and maternity leave. That in no way means that maternity leave and daycare prevent youth crime, just that they’re a possibility in richer countries. I thought I explained this to you already?

The countries that are the richest and best off didn’t get that way because of endless Maternity leave and people paying for working mothers daycare - they became rich and well off and then were in a position to offer those things. Again maternity and daycare have in no way actually caused the richest and safest countries to become so, it’s the other way round.

Your thinking wishfully about this - you have no idea if this will cause positive outcomes or not, it simply hasn’t been around long enough. It’s the product of positive outcomes, not the reason for them.

That’s just real talk but you can believe whatever let’s you live the life you want for yourself.

It was 12 weeks here in the uk when I have birth to my first. I had an extra month due to extra maternity leave offered by Local Government but that was it and that was generous!

@Megalameg
Thought you weren't going to reply?
Anyway, again, FACTS MATTER.
The US isn't poor.
But it is indeed true that CHILD poverty increases when there isn't affordable daycare and parental leave. Because the ones who benefit the most are not the parents but the children and the poorest ones at that. I have lived in the USA and had babies there and the lack of paid parental leave and affordable and quality daycare didn't bother me personally as I had a good salary and benefits. But, you know, I'm well aware of what happens to the children of those less well off than myself in the USA, one of the richest countries in the world.

@Megalameg
The only thing I "believe" in is making evidence based decisions and policies. And there is PLENTY of evidence out there showing how disadvantaged children suffer when low-income parents do not have any social protections such as parental leave and quality daycare is not affordable. I can link to endless studies for you. The evidence is there, this is not a new issue.

You can start with this:
www.hrw.org/report/2011/02/23/failing-its-families/lack-paid-leave-and-work-family-supports-us