Curious about (lack of) mat leave in USA. How do women cope?

[Ed1n]

Reading another thread about WFH with a newborn which got me thinking. I’m on mat leave and cannot imagine returning to work at twelve weeks, which is I understand, fairly typical (even best case) in US. Any stateside mumsnetters able to give insight into how long most women really take, what is childcare provision like etc?

It seems such a different set up! How do you breast feed, cope with sleep deprivation and decision making.

Googling suggests Estonia is the generous country for paid mat leave. USA the worst.

I had 16 weeks of full time leave and 8 weeks of part-time leave. Also, three weeks of vacation and 9 or ten holidays and 10 sick days. All paid.

America is the absolute pits. Nothing about it sounds in any way appealing.

As PP's have said, it completely depends where you work. My previous employer (large university) offered 12 weeks paid maternity leave under their health insurance policy - it was classed as "short-term disability" as you could also take that type of leave if, for example, you had an operation and needed recovery time. The Mums I knew usually tried to tag on vacation time to get up to 14-16 weeks.

Re. Vacation Time. Again, that varies hugely, employer by employer. I'm now self-employed so take unpaid leave when I want, but my DH works for an international company and gets has five weeks vacation. They also offer paternity leave now, that's a recent addition.

I was very disappointed that paid parental leave was cut out of the recent government bill, but I'm hopeful that the pendulum is very, very slowly swinging towards recognition that such laws benefit societies as a whole - and that reasonable vacation time is necessary for everyone's mental and physical health.

I could barely get dressed 6 weeks postpartum before 9am let alone do a full days work. I think it is barbaric.

Fuck me I am so glad I don't leave in that hellhole. "Only 12 percent of women in the private sector have access to any sort of paid maternity leave. ... 25 percent of women are forced to return to work within 2 weeks of giving birth to support their families. The United States is the only high-income country to not offer paid maternity leave on a federal level."

@PieMistee Where did you see those stats? They might be accurate, but I'm not sure they're current (I can believe they were true a few years ago).

Perhaps I'm just very lucky not to have met anyone who had quite such a horrific experience.

Mind boggling that the wealthiest country in the world has such paltry maternity leave.

What about women who work as waitresses or stacking shelves in a supermarket? Can't imagine physically being able to do such work a week or two after giving birth.

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar @wooliewoo - Yes! Agree

My mum (British, living in the UK) had me in 1990 and went back to work after 6 weeks because she was headhunted for a massive promotion and couldn't afford not to take it. I went to a childminder from then until I went to school.

That seems like a horribly short length of time by UK standards but needs must, I guess.

I can’t get my head around it either. So glad not to live there and surely any woman wanting a baby must consider moving & getting a job in Europe?

One of mine wasn't home from hospital until they were 15 weeks old, my husband had to go back to work but I was there for every ward round, treatment and operation. I can't imagine having to go back to work before they even came home.

@Ed1n

Thanks for the insights so far. It must be hard to breast feed/ express. We’re very lucky in the uk

Actually breastfeeding rates in the US are much higher than in the UK.

Breastfeeding rates in the UK are some of the lowest in the world even though we are given a generous 52 weeks of maternity leave.

I had six months(ish) with mine and actually it was a little easier. People didn't get entrounced with continuous extended breastfeeding (although some did am/pm).
I managed a large optical practice when I got pregnant with my first child, but was really less interested by 35 weeks (when I left on mat leave)
I really do not think it's in the child's interest to be left in a nursery under 6 months. It doesn't matter if it's mum or dad, but they need to be in a parent's care.

I think it's horrid. Again, these decisions are probably made by those who will never give birth and feel as physically depleted afterwards.

Why do you say you couldn’t imagine going back after 12 weeks?

As others have said, it’s just a matter of what’s the norm/ perspective. I still don’t quite follow how 12 months became the norm in the U.K.- I’m not sure what the basis for it is other than a year feeing like a ‘round’ amount of time? Does anyone know? As someone else said, 20 years ago or so women in the U.K. took only a few months.

@Ed1n

Thanks for the insights so far. It must be hard to breast feed/ express. We’re very lucky in the uk

I had a baby in US. Most of the mums in my group of mum friends breast fed and all for 6+ months.

Breastfeeding seemed a lot less taboo and people were happy to breastfeed in public. At work we had lovely ‘mother’s rooms’ for expressing and myself and the two other mums in my department used it. They had much less maternity leave than me - around 6-8 weeks, depending on whether they had a c-section.

Contrast this with the uk. Hardly any of my friends here breastfed beyond a few weeks let alone 6months. Facilities for expressing at work horrific

Some of this is such grim reading, and such a huge challenge for woman post birth. Makes me feel very lucky for the time I had off especially in light of research on the ‘fourth trimester’ and child development/ bonding.

I think in Sweden parents get two years!

I'm sure if men were pregnant and giving birth maternity leave would start with morning sickness and end once you had physically recovered. I'm in the UK but was discharged after emergency section and various complications with advice to use over the counter paracetamol and ibuprofen. There is no other major abdominal surgery that allows for that little pain relief. I was back at work at 16 weeks because DH shared parental leave offered better benefits! This was 2020.

Worth noting also that median salaries for most professions are typically higher in the US than the U.K. For some people, a trade off between salary and benefits (like maternity leave and holiday) is Ok; for others, it isn’t. Having lived in both countries I’m still not sure which I prefer.

But the point is- no one’s maternity leave or vacation days, or improved job security (another European advantage) are free. We pay for it through reduced average pay.

I agree with Blackamericannosugar's assessment of maternity leave.

I had 12 weeks paid leave (through short term disability policy provided as part of my benefits) after each child and then my company was happy to have me come back part time for the next few months. I worked up until a day before each birth but I was perfectly healthy. if you had high blood pressure or were otherwise feeling sick your doctor would sign you off.

My children went to high-quality childcare which cost and arm and a leg and when I had 3 of them there cost us more than his or my take-home pay (but that didn't take into account benefits, social security contributions and pension contributions)

Most of the professional women I knew did similar and all of them breastfed for at least a year. The women I knew in the US breastfed for way longer than my irish friends who were on 6 months plus maternity leave. Where I live there is more of a stigma about bottlefeeding than breastfeeding. My company set aside a room for women to pump during the working day.

One unexpected benefit of going to back to work within 4 months in my experience is both parents step up to the plate. I think if you are at home for a year doing most of the childcare and probably a lot of the housecare too the other parent gets used to that and when the mother goes back to work it is very hard to change the routine/expectations.

I absolutely believe the US is wrong to have a lack of federally mandated maternity leave and it is very hard on poorer/blue collar workers.

I don't think there is a UK norm of 24 months, perhaps in public sector. But in organisation where I work 6 months is norm. Don't get paid full salary either during that time just stat

Only 20 years ago and in the UK I got 6 weeks on 90% pay, and then another 6ish on SMP which was a lot lower (I want to say £80/week but I can't remember exactly). Then it was back to work, unless you could afford to take your second three months with no pay at all.

It also varies a lot by state. My state pays full pay for 12 weeks. And my employer does 6 months off as standard.

In terms of childcare, I live in an expensive west coast city and our nanny is paid £25/hour plus employer taxes for us. Standard infant nursery care is £1800-£2500 a month until age 1 when it drops a bit. So childcare costs can be pretty crippling if you don’t earn six figures.

People just get on with it for the most part. Breastfeeding, US breastfeeding rates are actually higher than UK. Although data on partial versus exclusive are harder to pin down.

Holiday also varies widely by employer, I get now what I got in the UK but after another couple years with the same company I’ll get 36 days.

None of my mum friends have gone part time (choice) and it’s not common here.

We are all highly educated & highly paid though. I think the story on leave is very different for hourly employees with bad employers.

@Pallisers I completely agree with you on husbands stepping up. My UK friends have a WAY more stereotypical gender split in childcare than my US friends.

Imagine having a baby and never getting up for night feeds! The nanny did them all

I‘d be too worried the baby bonded to the nanny more than me.