Why are the Tories so great?!

[WildFlowerBees]

Answers such as 'there's no one better' or 'would you prefer Kier or Nigel' aren't answers.

I see no benefits at all to having the current government we have, all I see is a bunch of self serving elitist willy waving boys who care only about the wealthy.

How are they voted in over and over and why has no one else stepped up that has morals and can actually do something good?

People still believe this outright lie?

Yes. When Jewish people tell me they feel under threat I tend to believe them. I also saw loads of anti-semitic stuff from momentum types online.

It's doesn't matter what the reasons, Corbyn was exceptionally weak at dealing with the antisemites. He left the right wing papers an open goal and then failed to deal with the circus it became.

Also, I have to say that the outspoken Labour supporters I know are horrible, narrow-minded, intolerant people who talk like Angela Rayner, saying that Tories are evil, nasty scum. That's not the reason I don't vote Labour but it certainly seems to be a pattern with the Labour supporters I know. Flinging out hatred and division but no real arguments.

Funny. I've had Jewish friends tell me the opposite, that it was a ridiculous media campaign managed to discredit Corbyn and to whip up anger to stop them winning.

The way the media managed to get people to think Corbyn was dangerous is quite commendable really, despicable, but impressive.

Dominic Cummings has written a substack on how he thinks Labour can win. here
You might find it interesting. At any rate it’s probably based on more research than anything I might suggest.

Absolutely the Tories are stealing Labour policies at the moment but I think Cummings is right that doesn’t have to be fatal for Labour.

This is facinating for many reasons, not least for the scary insight into how Cummings thinks and how little policies really matter, it's all about the message.

I think part of the trouble is party politics isn't as central to people's lives as it was in the past. My grandparents were all active members of political parties, how could you not be in 1930s Europe where there were big ideological fights going on? Their entire social life was built round the local branch of the party (different political parties on each side of the family). Now political party membership has shrunk and so the extremists have taken over.

@Blueskip

Also, I have to say that the outspoken Labour supporters I know are horrible, narrow-minded, intolerant people who talk like Angela Rayner, saying that Tories are evil, nasty scum. That's not the reason I don't vote Labour but it certainly seems to be a pattern with the Labour supporters I know. Flinging out hatred and division but no real arguments.

Angela Rayner retracted and apologised for this - however the (foreign owned) largely right wing press lead the narrative and carefully curate how they present politics to the British public. So for example, the (not yet fully investigated) issue about decoration of no 10 was reduced to a simplistic slogan of "stop getting worked up about wallpaper" when it was about corruption. Zac Goldsmith gets a peerage (unelected power anybody?) and Johnson gets free holidays and God only knows what other financial advantages... Of course many will have stopped reading, because, the power behind the throne (see above) relies on the British public accepting simplified versions of complex political situations. Usually involving money linked to backers who are inextricably linked to the media and the same vested interested. Many not based in or committed to the UK.

I've had Jewish friends tell me the opposite, that it was a ridiculous media campaign managed to discredit Corbyn and to whip up anger to stop them winning.

Oh well, all those Jewish groups were wrong then. You should have mentioned that to Luciana Berger and Louise Ellman, so they wouldn't have had to quit.

Labour could make 'You imagined the antisemitism' their next election slogan.

@Stellaris22

Funny. I've had Jewish friends tell me the opposite, that it was a ridiculous media campaign managed to discredit Corbyn and to whip up anger to stop them winning.

The way the media managed to get people to think Corbyn was dangerous is quite commendable really, despicable, but impressive.

Yes people are very easily manipulated by the media and they don’t have a clue it’s happening.

When Jewish people tell me they feel under threat I tend to believe them. I also saw loads of anti-semitic stuff from momentum types online.
Yep. I couldn't believe some of the stuff I read. Plus, if Jews tell me that they have noticed anti-Semitism, I tend to believe them. They've had some practice at spotting it.
www.survation.com/new-polling-of-british-jews-shows-tensions-remain-strong-between-labour-and-the-british-jewish-community/
The poll, conducted using Survation’s telephone panel of Jewish adults in Great Britain, found that 86% of respondents believe that there are high levels of antisemitism among Labour Party members and elected representatives (4 and 5 on a 1 to 5 scale where 1 represented low levels of antisemitism and 5 represented high levels), the same percentage as in 2018. Only 6% felt there were similar levels of antisemitism within the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, with 46% stating that UKIP had high levels of antisemitism.

And what was it Margaret Hodge called Corbyn?
Oh yeah.
An anti-Semite.

But she was obviously just manipulated by the media, because people are stupid and easily led.

@donquixotedelamancha do you have any evidence to support this statement ?

There is a group of competent, working class Tories from the North who are doing a much better job of redistributing wealth than Labour did in all the Blair/Brown years.

The Torys didn't drink the Kool Aid that Trans women magically changed in to women or withdraw membership and and tell women to leave if they though otherwise.

There are a lot of Tory women MPs right now fighting for womens safeguarding rights. So they will have my vote next time as they are the only party doing this.

donquixotedelamancha do you have any evidence to support this statement

It's an opinion, so I'm not sure what evidence you are looking for. I know quite a few Tories and I'm from that region. MPs and councilors from different regions are working together to influence government In a co-ordinated way that wasn't there a decade ago. Many of the good ones are from naturally Labour backgrounds.

As an example, transport spending has been vastly weighted to the south east for decades, the north has started to see a moderate uptick recently.

I guess it depends on what you find more important. I would rather focus on not voting for a party taking away funding from schools and healthcare, so children have the right to access properly funded schools.

But others find their views on trans rights are more important than their childrens education.

@Stellaris22

I guess it depends on what you find more important. I would rather focus on not voting for a party taking away funding from schools and healthcare, so children have the right to access properly funded schools.

But others find their views on trans rights are more important than their childrens education.

Womans and childrens protection are at the forefront of the trans debate. If you dont know that then clearly you have been fast asleep!

You need to get MN to change the title of the thread:

Why don't people support Labour.

About the only praise for the Tories is that some constituency MPs are good. And people think that the Tories are competent - which might have been the case 40 years ago, but it most certainly is not with Johnson as PM.

@donquixotedelamancha

Sorry I didn't realise that the statement was your opinion on the matter. It came across as though these people were making real inroads into redestributing wealth in the region, although I am not entirely sure what redistributing wealth actually means ? Is it like a Robin Hoodesque scenario ?

Anyone with children will know how dire funding is and how much schools and teachers are struggling. Children protection is extremely important and I would always vote for the party that will allow our children to have access to properly funded schools and put them first.

Because the Labour Party would rather fight among itself than provide a serious, coherent opposition and now that Labour has lost Scotland, I doubt if they will ever get the chance to do it again.

To me, there doesn't seem to be anyone in the three major parties that is credible.
The current Prime Minister (I can't bear to mention his name), started as one of approx 12 contenders for party leader, which was repeatedly voted by the parliamentary conservative party - down to the last two; the other candidate being Jeremy Hunt.
It was then put out to the conservative party members for a vote between those two. I advised the only person I know to be a party member to NOT vote for our current Prime Minister, as I thought he had 'too much baggage'. This advice was ignored by my contact, but anyway the current PM won.
Then there was a General Election, of which the Conservatives won a very good majority. So, I guess you could say, that, the PM has won 3 sort of elections, so must be popular wth some of them.
Personally, I consider him to be weak; he has the opinion of the last person he spoke to; a man without any integrity, etc.
I am not aware of any MP in the conservative party, who has what I would call 'stature'.
However, I am not sure the Labour Party have any either.
I may agree with Angela Raynor with her thoughts on the Tories, but as someone who is the Deputy Leader (I think), of the Labour Party, she needs to 'up her game', and realise if party leader, who would have to speak to world leaders, etc, so should be more diplomatic, etc

I can't understand why anyone unless they can afford private healthcare for everything, send their children to private school & can guarantee that they will never need any kind of state or council service votes for a party run by a dickhead buffoon like Boris Johnson. That leaves the rest of the voting population many who of which were brainwashed by a media & tory partnership instead of looking at what would be better for the rest of the country & especially for the poor, elderly, sick & vulnerable like Jeremy Corbyn did.

We need PR. Most people don't vote for them and our voting system massively skews seats vs votes, encourages divisive and polarising politics rather than cooperation, and increases voting apathy because many (most) people's votes are irrelevant. It isn't really democracy.

@WildFlowerBees

Answers such as 'there's no one better' or 'would you prefer Kier or Nigel' aren't answers.

I see no benefits at all to having the current government we have, all I see is a bunch of self serving elitist willy waving boys who care only about the wealthy.

How are they voted in over and over and why has no one else stepped up that has morals and can actually do something good?

OP, I don't think you can tell people not to say that there's no one better as that's not an answer but then in your own post ask the exact same question of why no on better has come along.

I think this is the whole crux of where we are right now. While there will be some people who think the Tories can do no wrong, I would have thought that most people who have voted Tory recently have done so purely because they are the best of a bad bunch, or the "least worst" option.

An example of why we voted for Brexit is in today's Times.
The EU has agreed to the destruction of masks that are near their "Use Before Date" They refuse to send them to any poor countries that would distribute them in time because donating things would distort the trade.
It ignores that many countries are too poor to buy on the open market.
Not sure why a mask goes off after a given date!

Corbyn was happy to let Momentum do 'their thing' and they took an anti-Zionist/pro-Palestinian stance - this morphed into an antisemitic attitude which people spouting the slogans have no idea about.

From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free is one such slogan. Usually shouted by some pasty white youth wearing a knock off keffiyeh bought down the market.

Rumours of Labour ties to the Muslim Brotherhood have not been killed off, somehow Jews are being expelled and people previously suspended or expelled from the party for antisemitism were readmitted - but Labour is not antisemitic?

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/15/muslim-brotherhood-protests-london-university-egypt_n_4282405.html

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/divided-we-fall-learning-the-right-lessons-labours-antisemitism-crisis-starmer-corbyn

There are too many Labour branded special interest groups, all whispering in the ear of elected officials about this transgression, that foreign political issue, the religious objection to the teaching of sex education and so on

Momentum was/is the Militant for the 21st Century and some of my local councillors credit them for getting elected - the councillors were critical of Labour Central Office and the support that was provided, during the local and general elections.

The party is split along almost generational lines, trying to be all things to all mxn and wxmen. It's a farce.

One set of definite policies - checked over to ensure no discrimination, a definite plan of action and credible leaders, capable of enthusing and inspiring people.

Selecting local 'talent' as MPs, promoted from within local CLPs and branches and not some clone from the party factory in London

Decent people, who, like the Tory MPs, pick litter, pack supermarket shopping with the scouts and hold regular surgeries.

Labour won under Blair because he had the party seemingly unified, he sold a message and got everyone singing the same song - literally. Things Can Only Get Better

The Tories had just sleazed too far - affairs, corporate greed, weak leadership and had completely run out of policies, ideas and whose leadership had gone from the Iron Lady to the Grey Man.

We need an organised, unified opposition, the dead weights, the dead hands and the dead wood cut away, a focus on UK policies and a code of conduct that they will adhere to.

No second memberships of other political causes and any MP must have ties or an interest in their constituency.

We can't have people who get to where they are, simply because of how well they can negotiate their way through committees, steering groups and special interest meetings.

They have to get out, meet people and understand what's going on in the 'real world', out here.

I miss John Smith. He'd have been wonderful.

@Stellaris22

Anyone with children will know how dire funding is and how much schools and teachers are struggling. Children protection is extremely important and I would always vote for the party that will allow our children to have access to properly funded schools and put them first.

@Stellaris22 and I would always vote for a party that stops children making irreversible fertility damage to their bodies and put their health first rather than buy in to ideology.

I have three daughters. Their protection and sex based safe spaces are the most important thing to me.