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Original poster

Why are the Tories so great?!

255 replies

WildFlowerBees · 04/11/2021 15:38

Answers such as 'there's no one better' or 'would you prefer Kier or Nigel' aren't answers.

I see no benefits at all to having the current government we have, all I see is a bunch of self serving elitist willy waving boys who care only about the wealthy.

How are they voted in over and over and why has no one else stepped up that has morals and can actually do something good?

OP posts:
User135644 · 08/11/2021 08:01

[quote Oneforthemoneytwo]@User135644 perhaps so but there are people who think they’re doing a good job. Low interest rates, no massive tax increases, low unemployment, covid jabs. Whether they’re right or wrong they genuinely think that we are better off under a Tory government. I know a good number of people who have a lot of time for many of the government. I’m not arguing in their favour, I’m just saying that despite MN they like a Tory gov. Personally I but I’m pretty much the only person I know who doesn’t vote Tory[/quote]
Perhaps. I just rarely hear people say anything good about them beyond "but Labour".

Low unemployment is balanced out by zero hour contracts and unsecure low-paid work. They made a complete mess of universal credit which cost a fortune when they promised to save a fortune. Plus the bullying of the disabled which led to many deaths.

They've kept taxes down but wages have been stagnant for over a decade. Taxes will be going up, in part due to the pandemic which can't be helped, but also Brexit, an act of national self harm which will hit us all in the pocket for years to come.

I get why people might make these arguments but when the chickens come home to roost the arguments won't be there. Last time there was long term Tory rule they were toast in the 90s once the recession hit and interest rates went crazy and they were mired in sleaze. It's only a matter of time.

Yusanaim · 08/11/2021 08:39

MN is an overwhelmingly tory supporting website. Every thread about how bad they are in government invariably descends into 'Labour are worse'. Every. Single. Time.

Well labour aren't worse at the moment - instead they are just, well, not around!
Where are their policies on .................anything . What are their policies - they've had what 10 years to come up with them - lets hear them - I'd happily not vote for Tories but I can't vote for nothing, espicially as it's nothing + their gender policy.

I am in Scotland and without a decent Labour party SNP rules - Labour were the major party in Scotland for decades now I don't even know if they have a policy - in fact I don't even know if they have candidates.

Peregrina · 08/11/2021 09:51

Last time there was long term Tory rule they were toast in the 90s once the recession hit and interest rates went crazy and they were mired in sleaze. It's only a matter of time.

But last time, Labour had a leader in Blair, who maintained tight discipline with the object of getting them elected. Whatever your opinions on him, he had charisma.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Politics
x2boys · 08/11/2021 10:47

@Peregrina

Last time there was long term Tory rule they were toast in the 90s once the recession hit and interest rates went crazy and they were mired in sleaze. It's only a matter of time.

But last time, Labour had a leader in Blair, who maintained tight discipline with the object of getting them elected. Whatever your opinions on him, he had charisma.

He certainly,did and I detest him now for many reasons but I can't deny he had charisma and he certainly made people think that things could only get better .
user1497207191 · 08/11/2021 10:49

@Peregrina

Last time there was long term Tory rule they were toast in the 90s once the recession hit and interest rates went crazy and they were mired in sleaze. It's only a matter of time.

But last time, Labour had a leader in Blair, who maintained tight discipline with the object of getting them elected. Whatever your opinions on him, he had charisma.

Nick Clegg was similar in that he had charisma and said the right things, resulting in a very good GE result. Unfortunately turning easy words into reality is a lot more difficult! Both could talk the talk but failed to walk the walk!
donquixotedelamancha · 08/11/2021 13:45

Nick Clegg was similar in that he had charisma. Are there two Nick Cleggs?

User135644 · 08/11/2021 18:01

Nick Clegg was an empty suit. i can't believe people fell for it just because he did okay in debates over Brown who was socially awkward and Cameron who was desperately trying to detoxify the Tories after several awful election results.

Ashdown and Kennedy were far better Lib Dem leaders. Clegg destroyed them as an electoral force, for a government car and a bit of power. They were to the left of Labour under Kennedy and did really well in 2005.

User135644 · 08/11/2021 18:04

@Peregrina

Last time there was long term Tory rule they were toast in the 90s once the recession hit and interest rates went crazy and they were mired in sleaze. It's only a matter of time.

But last time, Labour had a leader in Blair, who maintained tight discipline with the object of getting them elected. Whatever your opinions on him, he had charisma.

But if history repeats itself the Tories will win the next election (i.e. '92) and then a new Labour leader will come in with a bit of personality and vigour (Burnham perhaps), while more than a decade of bad governance finally catches up with the Teflon Tories.

If Corbyn was Michael Foot then Starmer is Kinnock.

Peregrina · 08/11/2021 19:46

I don't think Corbyn was ever in the mould of Michael Foot. He was a Labour MP of some stature, but then was out of his depth as Leader.
Corbyn never had stature in the first place.

User135644 · 08/11/2021 20:54

@Peregrina

I don't think Corbyn was ever in the mould of Michael Foot. He was a Labour MP of some stature, but then was out of his depth as Leader. Corbyn never had stature in the first place.
No, but it's the same difference. His Labour lost catastrophically (1983/2019) and then a more moderate leader comes in who nobody really cares much about or wants to vote for (Kinnock/Starmer).
Sn0tnose · 08/11/2021 22:13

Answers such as 'there's no one better'...aren't answers.
Well, yes, they are actually. They’re just not what you want to hear. Our current government are an absolute shower of shite and the UK is in a lot of trouble right now. Why would anyone risk making things worse (and it would be worse for half of the population) by voting in a party whose mantra seems to be ‘Vote for us; we’re just as out of touch, racist, homophobic and misogynistic as the other lot, but we’re pretty sure we’d be shit at politics in a whole different way, so why not take a chance on us?’ They certainly aren’t doing anything to suggest that voting for them might result in anything better.

I’m not a Tory voter. I didn’t vote for them last time and I won’t be voting for them next time. But instead of getting annoyed with Tory voters, why aren’t you furious with Labour for driving intelligent, left wing women away in droves and forcing them to spoil their ballot papers? Why aren’t you getting angry with them for pissing about on Twitter, trying to convince GC feminists that cervixes can be handed out on the NHS, rather than working to inspire floating voters with the confidence that they wouldn’t make more of a hash of running the country than Boris and his mates have done? How is anyone supposed to take a party as a serious credible alternative when their own MP’s don’t feel safe enough to attend the party conference?

Peregrina · 09/11/2021 09:04

Answers such as 'there's no one better'...aren't answers.
Well, yes, they are actually.

It's a poor reflection on the party if that is the only answer they can come up with. Similarly, some are good constituency MPs, but that is not unique to the Tory Party.

longwayoff · 09/11/2021 09:14

Well, they ARE the Nasty Party. That's why they find it so annoying when people helpfully point it out as they prefer it to be referred to as something else, something more attractive and less truthful. But 'Nasty is as Nasty does' as Smugg's nanny presumably neglected to point out to him.

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 09:22

Another laugh is posters saying they'll vote Tory because of women's rights.
Have they not seen the falling rape convictions?
The women and children pushed into poverty by Tory policies?

MatildaIThink · 09/11/2021 09:27

@longwayoff

Well, they ARE the Nasty Party. That's why they find it so annoying when people helpfully point it out as they prefer it to be referred to as something else, something more attractive and less truthful. But 'Nasty is as Nasty does' as Smugg's nanny presumably neglected to point out to him.
A more apt description would perhaps be "The Indifferent Party", I do not think they are deliberately nasty, I do not think that they set out to cause harm, I think they are just totally indifferent to the consequences of their policies.

If you see poverty as a consequence of one's choices, then that will frame things differently to those who see poverty as something entirely outside of one's control.

MatildaIThink · 09/11/2021 09:34

@Kendodd

Another laugh is posters saying they'll vote Tory because of women's rights. Have they not seen the falling rape convictions? The women and children pushed into poverty by Tory policies?
The problem I have with the rape convictions situation is how can it actually be improved? It is very often a "he said, she said" situation, witnesses are rarer than hen's teeth. Most cases of violent rape, or violent sexual assault do end up being convicted, most non-violent rapes do not, because there is no evidence of rape.

The only way to increase the conviction rate would be to lower the burden of proof for a rape conviction from "beyond a reasonable doubt", to "she said it happened", and that is something I will never be comfortable with.

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 10:19

Most cases of violent rape, or violent sexual assault do end up being convicted

Where's you evidence for that? Is it true?

MatildaIThink · 09/11/2021 10:33

@Kendodd

Most cases of violent rape, or violent sexual assault do end up being convicted

Where's you evidence for that? Is it true?

I do not have a link but I remember hearing it on (I think) R4.

What the CPS were saying was that violence usually creates evidence in the form of physical injury, that can also be used to show that the violence was used to carry out the rape, which makes prosecution much easier.

In non-violent rape cases it is much easier for the defence to introduce doubt by saying that the victim changed their mind after the act, but that it was consensual at the time. This also revolves around the often used narrative of "why did the victim not fight back if it was rape?" and ignores the issue of the inability to consent due to intoxication.

The person from the CPS was saying that they understood there was a problem, but for a criminal conviction they needed to be able to prove that there was a crime committed, violence made that much easier.

GreenWhiteViolet · 09/11/2021 10:48

I'm a working class Leave voter who believes in material reality and knows that men can't become women.

I'm economically centre right but believe that there should be a strong safety net for the people who need it. I hate what the Tories have done to disability benefits. It's awful. I hate the ridiculous lies over covid.

But I can't vote for someone who despises me and thinks I'm bigoted scum for my views. I can't vote for someone who asserts that it's wrong to say that women have cervixes. I won't. So my choices are Tory or a spoiled ballot.

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 11:33

I'm a working class
But I can't vote for someone who despises me

And yet you vote Tory?
How much evidence do you need that Tories hate poor people?

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 11:40

Rees-Mogg for one example, celebrating the existence of food banks, claiming he was too clever to have been killed in the Grenfell fire and after the Sarah Everard murder telling women they need to be more street wise. Life expectancy has actually FALLEN in some poorer parts of the country under the Tories (pre covid). Do you really think they care for working class?

Gingernaut · 09/11/2021 11:48

The Tories aren't great at all, but in 2019, they looked like the less shit option.

Now we know different, but Labour still don't have a coherent policy on anything and are all over the place.

jgw1 · 09/11/2021 11:57

@Gingernaut

The Tories aren't great at all, but in 2019, they looked like the less shit option.

Now we know different, but Labour still don't have a coherent policy on anything and are all over the place.

I will say this for Boris Johnson. He has a series of coherent polices applicable to every situation.

a) enrich himself and his mates in anyway possible.
b) hide when called to account for a.
c) repeat.

MatildaIThink · 09/11/2021 12:20

@Gingernaut

The Tories aren't great at all, but in 2019, they looked like the less shit option.

Now we know different, but Labour still don't have a coherent policy on anything and are all over the place.

I unfortunately agree. I think that is the big battle that Starmer is currently fighting, trying to get the party back on a coherent footing and decide on policy without the Labour Party tearing itself apart.

The recent debacle of Starmer not being able to say what a woman is, is a fairly solid example. I am sure he knows exactly what a woman is, but if he gives the true definition then a part of the left will go for him all guns blazing, Labour's factional wars have always been a huge issue and on trans issues, women's rights, wokeism, identity politics etc. they seem intent on tearing themselves apart, the sensible side of Labour says something and the loony part goes into meltdown.

Peregrina · 09/11/2021 12:22

So my choices are Tory or a spoiled ballot.

No - two more choices, either not vote, or stand yourself as an Independent.

Boris Johnson
d) get a mate to give him a free holiday. And not a week in CenterParcs either.