I said it would happen, it happened, now what?

[Blahblahnobodylistens]

I wasn't really sure where to put this as it could cover a few areas but I'm need to ask for advice regarding 10 year old and school. This is quite lengthy as there is a bit of history which is important.

But of backstory...ds goes to a small school, each class is 2 years in one with approx 28 students per class. He is in year 5 and has had many issues with another student who is now in year 6. Last year was not an issue because they were in separate classes and all the restrictions meant they rarely crossed paths however, the year before was absolutely horrendous with tears most days due to behaviour from the other child. This behaviour included making up stories that ds had hit them and hurt them. ds was taken into the HM office on more than one occasion due to this but ds always maintained his innocence and became very upset each time. This came to an abrupt end when this child threw themselves on the floor screaming as they lined up in the playground at the start of the day, stating ds had punched her in the face. Thankfully several parents and another teacher saw what had happened and as ds was being marched to the HM office they came to his rescue and told them it was fabricated. They would also goad ds, whispering awful things to him about how he was ugly, fat (definitely not as he competes in a sport that he is regional champ in), everyone hates him etc etc and following him despite ds begging them to leave him alone and trying to walk away. That year I lost countless hours talking to his teachers, begging them to monitor the situation before he loses his shit and reacts in the way I guess she's hoping he will so he gets into serious trouble. Just to add, all of these things were always done away from the teachers, out of earshot and slyly. When this school year started, I requested a meeting with his new teacher so she was aware of the history, only because ds had huge anxiety about being back in a class with this child. She never replied, has ignored me via several channels of communication 😒

2 weeks ago this child started all old behaviours again and followed ds around the playground venting awful stuff. Ds did exactly what we have been instilling in him to do, ask her to leave him alone and go tell a teacher what is happening. He did this...and was told to stop telling tales. The 2 children ended up having a big row in the playground because they just would not leave him alone, they had a scuffle and ds got into trouble. I was so pissed off that ds had done everything we had been reinforcing him was the right thing to do yet was the one to get into trouble because he was effectively failed. I went in the next morning and had a very long chat with the TA (as the teacher wasn't available) and made it very clear that his treatment was actually very unfair when he was the one that was being goaded and was basically told to fuck off when he tried to put an end to it.

Anyway, onto yesterday...I get hauled into the classroom at the end of the day. Ds has kicked another student very hard. I was absolutely mortified and upset, I have never ever known ds to hurt anyone, but wanted to know if it was the student he's had all of the issues with..turns out it was. I asked how it had come to him losing his shit that badly and was told she wasn't sure. So I asked ds to explain and, sure enough, it was the usual story. The teacher had left the room, student makes a beeline for ds and starts mocking him because he was asking another student if she was OK as she looked upset (that's a whole other story) and apparently boys can't talk to girls as it makes them pathetic. Ds asked her to leave him alone and walked away at which point the student follows him around the class mocking him. He says that he begged the student to leave him alone and kept walking around the room to get away but they carried on and he lost his shit and kicked them.

Now I don't condone what my ds has done, far from it, but I'm pretty pissed off that it has gone this far when I have repeatedly spoken to the school warning them that there is only so much ds will take before he loses his temper unless they act on our conversations and stop the other students behaviour. And now they have labelled ds as a child who requires anger management! I actually think he's managed his anger pretty bloody well over the past 3 years despite the relentless lies and sly mocking.

So my question is, how do I move forward with this? I warned the teachers, even as recently as 2 weeks ago, that he is being pushed beyond my limits of anger coaching. I warned them that there is only so much he can take and that teachers have so far been unhelpful when he has asked for help and told them what is happening. He's done everything right so far but now he's undone all of that by kicking this student. How do I deal with this without making it look like I'm one of those parents that doesn't believe her PFB can do any wrong?? He has done wrong, he is very remorseful and even the teacher said he didn't stop apologising all day, but surely some blame should be taken off his shoulders? Yesterday they were angling all of the blame on ds and wanting to make referrals for anger management and counselling, blaming his reaction on the fact he's been upset as his grampy, my dad, died of covid in February. This has been going on since way before my dad passed and I actually resent them making attempts to blame that, rather than admitting they fucked up and misread the message I was trying to convey. But that's just me projecting I guess 😕

I would also include a timescale for a reply and next steps if you aren’t satisfied with the outcome

As per the complaint procedure I expect a written response within 7 working days - or whatever it says.

Has your ds showed other signs of anger issues? Has his behaviour been an issue before? It seems very odd that svhool would be saying he needs anger management based on one incident. There are often two sides and you may well only be getting one side here.

@Blahblahnobodylistens

I do get that *@Hen2018* but, in my mind, it almost feels that that would punish my ds. He hasn't done anything wrong (well, apart from yesterday) yet he's the one that has to move? How is that fair?

I understand why you would be hesitant to move your son but you are the parent. Unless you are prepared to make a lot of noise to several levels of school administration and perhaps not get any satisfaction, a move may be your only answer. it appears that this school is not a good fit and may be harming your sons mental health.

I have just read the whole thread, and I would echo what others have said in that I would copy in the governors and outline a clear timetable when you would expect a response by.

My son has not shown anger towards any other children, not that has been brought to my attention. He was also not corrected when he said in front of his teacher yesterday that this keeps happening, they continue to follow him and goad him, despite him doing what we have said and walking away and telling a teacher. She didn't say "you haven't done that, we weren't aware" or anything similar and I would take that as being because that wouldn't be true and he would say as much.

@diddl

Surely your son kicked as a form of self defence?

He wasn't being left alone when asked & was being followed?

Why wasn't he believed until there was proof that he hadn't been hurting his bully?

Surely there was no proof either way?

The whole thing is appalling.

yes! like when victims of domestic violence/coercive control finally break! it's sooo unfair for them to jump on him for the ONE time he does this just beacise it happens to be physical rather than mental violence. I wouldn't take up their offer of grief counseling (if you feel it might be beneficial you can arrange it yourself). sounds like they're trying to find an easy way out and it's thoroughly inadequate.

[quote Sitchervice]@Thepennysjustdropped oh well I still think the op should put her foot down.

If people don't like the gendered slur then let's just change the meaning instead from moaning woman, to a woman who gets stuff done.[/quote]
I also think the OP should put her foot down. That's a perfectly adequate phrase.

Re. your other point, it's not going to happen, is it? Best for that term (and similar use of other female names) to fade from use, IMO.

Might be worth considering complaining to the chair of governors if the head teacher is totally uninterested in engaging with you at all

www.bullying.co.uk/bullying-at-school/what-to-do-if-the-school-doesn-t-resolve-the-bullying/

OP my 10 year old saw a boy kicking a girl in the playground yesterday and was really very upset about it. I understand that your child has been goaded by the other child but he has still retaliated by kicking. It doesn't sound as though it is the same school though.

It sounds as though there is a lot to be improved upon at the school, but I do also think that there may well be other reasons why the teachers are talking about anger management and grief counselling, not just because of this one event. I really think you need to take a few deep breaths and commit to being open minded about what the school has to say. There may be anger issues with your child as well as the other child being goading. The other child goads other children I think you say, but have other children kicked her?

This might be wrong but it is worth being open minded. It does sound as though the way the school is dealing with bullying is poor - it is not good enough to tell a child who is seeking help that he is telling tales and it is not acceptable to be discussing your child with other parents if that is what happened. But at the same time there may be other issues at school which are concerning the teachers which you are not yet aware of. It might be worth making sure it is very much a two way conversation before you start to think of the best way forward.

No, don't accept grief councelling. It will be your way of admitting that he does have issues, issues that THEY will define and relate in their notes to his behaviour at school. How did they remember it now? Your DS is a saint. I wouldn't have tolerated such behaviour and ask them what is he learning from school right now? To put up with bullies and the single time he snaps HE is the guilty party and suddenly has anger management problems?! He is NOT responsible for the other child's behaviour! 2 DSs have both told me that many girls at their primary would gang up and be horrible but nothing would happen because "I am a girl, how dare you do this ir that to me"

I’m angry on your behalf. Agree with pp don’t accept grief counselling from the school, use a private charity, is there one called Winstons wish?

I went through hell with bullying when my son was in Primary. I begged. I pleaded. I shouted. Eventually I staged a strike. I kept my son off school and told the (useless) head that if County wanted to know why my child was absent I would be happy to tell them. Other parents reported the same kid. The School did nothing. The child left half way through Y4 and the change in my son was huge. I didn't realise what a negative effect it was having on our home life till it stopped. It got so bad in the school that one of my son's friends went home and told his mother, who was a friend of mine. A girl who was not friends with my son told her Mum who wasn't a friend of mine and that Mum came to me to tell me.

Document everything. Take your phone with you to record meetings.
If they don't intervene go to the Governors. Or stage a strike. If the school is going to get hassle they might do something.
My main regret and this is probably not the best advice, is that I waited for the school to do something. I really wish I had confronted the kid's parents. My son is now in Y10 and every time I see the bully's Dad he runs away, as he knows full well that his kid was horrible.

I wouldn’t reject the grief counseling if you think it might be helpful. But I might say that while it might be a good idea, you don’t want DS’s response to the current, constant bullying conflated with his grief and you think it would be better to wait until there is a clear plan on the bullying so he doesn’t have to worry about that when he gets grief counseling.

I had to take my eldest out of a primary school because of a teacher and my youngest from a high school because of a bully. I would contact the governors if the HM is no help and the Local Authority

@Blahblahnobodylistens

After reading my post back I'm actually quite upset with myself for letting it get to this. I've never written it down as a collective, separately the incidents never seem "that" bad, but I'm just as bad! I've just phoned and requested a conversation with the HM and expressed how upset I am that ds has been vilified and made to shoulder all of the blame despite my repeated concerns. He wasn't available and was told he will call me later, I've said I want him to make sure he has a copy of the anti bullying policy handy to email me so I can go through it with a fine tooth comb.

Don't just talk. Everything in writing and whenever a conversation has occurred, email setting out what was said purely as a record.

@CiderJolly

If this has been going on for 3 years and showing no signs of stopping, I would be going straight to the girl’s parents. I don’t care if that’s against school advice.

They can't pull strings in her head. Teachers make the weather in school. They need to be watching her closely so they can troubleshoot and help her with her issues.

@Blahblahnobodylistens

The more I reflect on the conversation yesterday, the more annoyed I'm becoming. I overheard the child's mum talking to the teacher as we were waiting for them to come out of class, she said "I know he has issues" (obviously I didn't know they were talking about ds at the time and that was pretty much the only full sentence I heard as they were talking quietly and I don't make a habit of listening to private conversations). What are these "issues"? And who the hell has told her my ds has "issues"? Ugh I'm getting so cross, yesterday I just rolled over and was very apogetic and accepted what was said but today I realise that, actually, this isn't all ds fault.

This is a classic. Get him out of the school you won't beat this unholy alliance and the school will love to conclude that both kids are the problem. They are all simply terrified of the b word . Years down the line, at high school, this girl with have her full rep or diagnosis clarified. Don't make your son part of the experiment.

[quote Blahblahnobodylistens]@Babyghirl I haven't punished him. We had the most indepth talk on the way home yesterday (we have a 6 mile journey to school so get time) and he knows he did wrong by kicking her. The fact is, he has never hurt anyone before, so I know he was pushed to his limits and beyond. It's only really 2 years because last year they weren't in the same class and the school bubble system meant they never really crossed paths[/quote]
So two class intake? Just ask for one of them to be moved as a start.

OP, it sounds to me like the other child is fairly obviously targeting your DS because she is determined to provoke a reaction. If that’s the case, she will not let up until she gets it, every time. She will then use it to get him in trouble.

She needs help, as she is only a child. But so is your DS. My first concern would be to remove him from the stress, and to have it all stop. I’d personally move him, but it is your call, OP.

Yes, people of all ages do snap eventually when they are physically trapped and relentlessly abused. The situation (and outcome) isn’t ideal, but neither is it of the victim’s making. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

The school seem to be playing you all off!? You seem to be told that this other child is the problem and that they have others on their radar. Meanwhile the other child's parent is being told that there are ‘issues with your DS. It's all rather strange. I agree that it might be worth seeing the other parent with the school. You all seem to be told something different implying that the problem is the other. Until you can resolve that it will be hard to get some sort of resolution.

Sounds awful,OP. Any way you could connect a “spy cam” to your son and record her behaviour towards your son? Or is that breaking some privacy rules?

I just want to say I don’t know what channels you can go down but I understand completely. We had the exact same sort of thing with my nephew and it’s only improved now he’s at secondary and the other child is not in any of his classes. It was especially crap as the other child had a family member working at school that would see what was happening but wouldn’t intervene until my nephew reacted and then sent just him to the HT.
I hope you manage to get it sorted.

[quote mumsiedarlingrevolta]@Blahblahnobodylistens
Please be careful the grief counselling is not somehow going to be used to imply your DS has anger problems and place the blame for all of this on him!!!!
I'd be very wary of "school" grief counselling especially as you over heard the other mother saying she know he has issues so there may be some lapses in confidentiality.
If he needs any help I would completely separate it from the school-I know you want to look cooperative but my spidey senses are up on this one!!
Suddenly helpful after ignoring you for several years...[/quote]
Exactly. My son was bullied years ago at his primary and they got him counselling which turned out to be the early intervention worker from the local authority. Luckily I am in a relevant profession and knew where that led in terms of "is everything ok at home love?" Do not accept. Get your own if you need it. .

As a Mum who had a daughter really struggling at a rural school, not for the exact same reasons but for similar reasons. I have to say that since my daughter moved up to academy, I have been regretting not moving my daughter sooner. In a rural school, there are less children which may be better class size-wise, but certainly makes it harder for your child to avoid a child who is bullying them.

In the space of a term, my daughter has went from sinking to soaring, she has lovely new friends and her teachers have identified that she is year's ahead of where she should be with certain subjects (something that wasn't picked up at her old school because she was constantly anxious and wasn't able to concentrate properly- she wasn't even in the top reading group in primary). Home life is so much happier too! I honestly would reconsider moving schools, especially before your son has been labelled (by all teachers, staff and parents) as violent/ aggressive and having anger issues - which could follow him onto his next school and change the way he is treated by teaching staff there (is it possible this girl will be following him all the way up to Academy?)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. This story is very similar indeed to what my son went through at Primary School.....how I wish I had moved him. It's not right, but I dearly wish I had just let him be happy elsewhere. I should have realised after a year or so that if nothing had been done, then it never would be and given up. Definitely shouldn't be the case, but it ruined his and our childhood memories and made him very wary, shy and defensive when this wasn't his natural personality. To have my sympathy in what is a really frustrating and sad situation.