Air source heat pumps - a bit off putting, or is it just me?

[FolornLawn]

I was surprised to see how big and ugly they are.

This article shows a picture of one, and I wouldn't want it in my small garden. Also the report says people will need room for a boiler and a water cylinder.

I'm quite surprised at how negatively I feel about the new plans. There's something about having to remodel bits of my house and garden that feels like an imposition, when I happily recycle, use washable sanitary pads and kitchen roll, go without a tumble dryer etc. Is it just me?

That looks like a ground source heat pump to me. I had an air source heat pump, and we didn't have anything outside like that.

I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert.

Our new boiler was about £3k 5 years ago (and fitted by British Gas, so likely to be more expensive than others). A ground source heat pump (we have space in the garden) would be more like £15-17k. A £5k grant won’t make that affordable.

This is too little, only the wealthiest (who have money to spare on this) will be able to cover the cost.

What about proper insulation? Double glazing?

Dh and I talked about heat pumps recently - he’s an engineer, so understands more about them than I do - and he thinks that a heat pump would be of very little use where we live in Scotland.

Plus he says it isn’t as easy as just replacing a boiler with a heat pump - the heating system would need to be adapted and changed, to make the best use of the heat pump, and this would not be cheap, or as easy as the article would seem to suggest.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Dh and I talked about heat pumps recently - he’s an engineer, so understands more about them than I do - and he thinks that a heat pump would be of very little use where we live in Scotland.

Plus he says it isn’t as easy as just replacing a boiler with a heat pump - the heating system would need to be adapted and changed, to make the best use of the heat pump, and this would not be cheap, or as easy as the article would seem to suggest.

This. And as I understand it not much use in my very old property. Great if you have underfloor heating. Not great for the occasions when it’s a bit nippy “oh I’ll just pop the heating on” would be a thing of the past.

@FluffyBooBoo

That looks like a ground source heat pump to me. I had an air source heat pump, and we didn't have anything outside like that.

I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert.

Ah, that's interesting. The article does say that an air source one is 1m x 1m, which is pretty sizeable! What was yours like?

None of the coverage I've seen so far has exactly sold them to me.

The upfront costs are huge, the running costs same as gas bolier - I need to give space up for bits of kit - many interviewed seem to have had installation delays/problems.

I think the hope is by time many of us need to find a replacement for our gas boilers they're cheaper and more an option.

I think I'd prefer a heat pump to district heating but that might change.

I'm going to move into a much smaller dwelling before this comes in.

I think this says a lot about human nature and just how badly the message about the climate crisis is being communicated, that there are whole islands and communities around the world who are being devastated by the impacts of climate change, and we're worried about an unsightly appliance in our garden - it's not a dig at you OP, I totally get the individual reluctance, and I WORK in the environment sector.
I think the choice may eventually become easier though, as fossil fuel prices continue to increase.
We're fully electric, with our own solar panels, in the aim of insulating ourselves against future price shocks.
We have an air source heat pump on our new boiler/tank, which works very efficiently in the loft. However air source is not a viable option for our house heating, as we live in an incredibly leaky & inefficient old building, so any warm air going in would just breeze out again.
The costs of exterior insulation and replacing all our windows is prohibitive - around 50K - and I will never get payback on that, so I am not going to do it.

@FolornLawn I live in (and own) a London 1930s flat so I wouldn't be allowed to install it even if I wanted to. Whatever I can afford to buy in london in future is likely to either have a small private garden or a communal garden and the garden is likely to be too small for a heat pump.

It just seems very impractical for urban properties. And actually encouraging people to live in urban settings is far kinder to the environment as urban dwellers are less likely to own cars, more likely to be able to walk to the shops/cycle to work/use public transport.

I don't have a car, use a moon cup, recycle, don't have a tumbledryer, am planning to have 1 child. I am willing to do my best for the environment but this just seems impossible.

Mine was probably similar in size to a normal fridge-freezer. Maybe with a slightly bigger footprint, but it was all inside the house. My neighbours had ground source heat pump and they had something like that outside the house.

I'd say that WAS an air source one, as the moving parts are above ground.
In a ground source heat pump the vast majority of it is underground. It takes a huge area.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis but i live in a 1930s london flat. I dont see how we can have a air source heat pump. the terraces near me also all have tiny gardens- think 6 m by 3.6 m.

We have previously had one in a new build. Nothing unsightly outside. It was great, to be honest, and very efficient.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis

I'd say that WAS an air source one, as the moving parts are above ground. In a ground source heat pump the vast majority of it is underground. It takes a huge area.

Entirely possible. As I said I'm not an expert. It just looks much more like my neighbors ground source one than my air source one.

Oh and just to add - our bills were very low. The trouble was that it was hard to get people to service it. That is going to be the bigger problem with these.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis

I think this says a lot about human nature and just how badly the message about the climate crisis is being communicated, that there are whole islands and communities around the world who are being devastated by the impacts of climate change, and we're worried about an unsightly appliance in our garden - it's not a dig at you OP, I totally get the individual reluctance, and I WORK in the environment sector. I think the choice may eventually become easier though, as fossil fuel prices continue to increase. We're fully electric, with our own solar panels, in the aim of insulating ourselves against future price shocks. We have an air source heat pump on our new boiler/tank, which works very efficiently in the loft. However air source is not a viable option for our house heating, as we live in an incredibly leaky & inefficient old building, so any warm air going in would just breeze out again. The costs of exterior insulation and replacing all our windows is prohibitive - around 50K - and I will never get payback on that, so I am not going to do it.

Yes, I was a little surprised at myself at how negatively I feel about it. I love design and gardening though, so the whole thing makes me think, yuck.

As you're in the environment sector, how realistic is hydrogen heating as an option in the next few years? Our house is well positioned for solar panels, how well does that work for heating water? The thought of a cylinder that heats up and then empties makes my heart sink a bit, I like just heating the water I use, when I need it.

The picture in the article is definitely of an air source heat pump. We had them installed on the new buildings at the school I worked in.

In my experience, they are quite large, a bit noisy, expensive to install and not very reliable. They work best when the heating system is under floor heating, as they don't produce radiant heat, just background warmth.

I think (hope) that the reliability and also the design and versatility will improve when the market enlarges and more people are installing them.

Bear in mind that they use electricity. Also, the components used in their manufacture are likely finite. So this isn't a permanent solution.

I have to say, that although they're very unpopular at the moment, the Insulate Britain group has the right idea. Insulation is the key. If all our houses were heavily insulated and triple glazed and had no opening windows but instead had an air circulation system, the energy used to heat our homes would be next to none.

A few people have mentioned downsizing to flats etc. I own a two bedroom ground floor flat that is right in the middle/surrounded by others- so only one side exposed. I enquired about the government grant for either heat pump and was told that for one- two bedroom flats they weren't helpful in teens off costs and it was often more efficient to stick with a combi 🤷🏼‍♀️. Can't win!

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Dh and I talked about heat pumps recently - he’s an engineer, so understands more about them than I do - and he thinks that a heat pump would be of very little use where we live in Scotland.

Plus he says it isn’t as easy as just replacing a boiler with a heat pump - the heating system would need to be adapted and changed, to make the best use of the heat pump, and this would not be cheap, or as easy as the article would seem to suggest.

A lot of people here in Maine have them, including my neighbours, and are very happy with them. They do usually have some kind of backup system for when temperatures get really low (like below -10C).

What appeals to me about them is that they cool as well as heat your house, but that's probably not such a big deal in Scotland.

Big investment though.

I’ve got an ASHP. There is no mains gas here so the alternative would have been oil. The ASHP is much smaller than an oil tank.

It doesn’t have a boiler (as mentioned in the original post). It has a water tank which fitted in the airing cupboard and was nowhere as near as big as the hot water tank for the taps.

It’s quiet and has been fine so far. It replaced ancient storage heaters.

That's an air source pump. Friend of mine her neighbours have one and it's noisy. As well as having an ugly box stuck on your wall in the garden.

Won't be any use to me in my 130yo house. Totally ineffective apparently unless I spend 15k having external insulation cladding stuff put on the outside of my lovely victorian red brick.

I have lived in places that were gas and now live somewhere that is mostly electric (water and storage heaters) and solid fuel (aga). It is hell and I would never recommend electric or solid fuel to anyone. I can't wait to sell up and get a place that has gas again. Our neighbours have a air source or ground source thing outside and it is huge and hideous. I think once gas is coming to an end there will be a huge push for hydrogen heating and (just like with the covid vaccine) it will be possible.

I'm sure over time everything will get cheaper, more reliable, smaller and quieter etc.

I don't understand why insulation is so hard to arrange. It's almost impossible to get anyone to quote for anything. When I did manage, it was going to cost £15k to put insulation on the rear elevation of my bog standard Victorian terrace. No thanks.

As to getting anyone to help with underfloor insulation - also impossible. The green scheme was totally useless too.

Wouldn't there be a way to have a kind of communal pump that provides heat to a whole street? Esp terraces where there's not enough room for these big boxes.

We had one in our house in Australia, where they were common. The main issue was how noisy it was though I'm not sure if that was the type we had. We used to choose to be cold because the noise was so irritating while you were trying to watch tv!

Avoid them as long as you can. They won't work well. they will break down. They are less reliable than a gas boiler. They are very expensive. They may well make a continuous noise which could ruin people's gardens and sitting out there in silence listening to birds. I don't mind if humans die off on this planet a bit sooner (it is good for the planet if we do) so would rather we just stuck with our gas boilers.