Air source heat pumps - a bit off putting, or is it just me?

[FolornLawn]

I was surprised to see how big and ugly they are.

This article shows a picture of one, and I wouldn't want it in my small garden. Also the report says people will need room for a boiler and a water cylinder.

I'm quite surprised at how negatively I feel about the new plans. There's something about having to remodel bits of my house and garden that feels like an imposition, when I happily recycle, use washable sanitary pads and kitchen roll, go without a tumble dryer etc. Is it just me?

@80sMum but it is hugely impractical to retrofit existing houses with air circulation systems. Just not feasible, surely? I would love a forced air system like in North America but it just won't happen here in the UK except maybe new builds.

@ZZtop the air source heat pumps that cool as well rely on an air circulation system. If (as is usually the case in the UK) you have water-based radiators, the ASHPs do not cool as well.

Like others on this thread I need to insulate my house before I even THINK about changing the way I heat it. I can't see why this isn't the headline govt policy, except that it's harder, much less sexy and possibly not got powerful lobbyists pushing it (in fact govt probably massively unwilling to do anything that looks like capitulation to Insulate Britain and their unhelpful tactics). Oh. I guess I can see why after all!

I am willing to spend the money, even if I never recoup it, but haven't a clue where to start, what to look out for and am very aware I'm at risk of being taken for a ride by cowboys. Govt should focus on supporting and regulating the insulation industry, only that's harder and more expensive than bunging a wodge of cash towards the handful of manufacturers who make heat pumps.

My Mum doesn't like them either. Have to say, I can't come up with a better option and as I want heating and power, it'd be no big deal to have one on the side of the house. I'd say our main issue in this household would be getting ourselves financial prepared.

I saw one on the TV this morning. The outside bit was great. But the but that was inside the house just wouldn't fir anywhere in my house

I live in small 3 bed terrace can't think where it would go that it wouldn't take up the majority of the room.

They don't look much different to the AC units on building in much of the world.

But suitability is an issue. I fear what will happen is the poorest will be in housing that can't have a heat pump system or the landlord won't pay for it, and they'll be forced onto non-heat-pump electric heating which is extremely expensive.

For those who can afford an upgrade I don't think radiator-based heating is a good approach anyway. Whatever we do global warming is happening so domestic aircon will become important. An air based system, as is popular in the USA, seems much more fitting. With a heat exchanger air can be circulated while keeping the heat in; the outgoing air gives up its heat to warm the incoming air. (And vice versa for summer cooling).

@Notsurewheretogo can you do the air source pump? you would have a small garden probably? but would it not work well for you if your terrace is a period terrace?

We have a ASHP for our tiny 75m2 cottage and have the cylinder in a very well insultated timber lean too.

The ASHP works really well, and definitely significantly cheaper to run than the old oil boiler.

My neighbours are getting one next month, costing £9k, we already have a tank and insulation thankfully. Sound proofing the room it's in sounds necessary!

We are in Switzerland and have one. We have a big old house which it heats efficiently. We had oil before and replaced the oil tank with a water tank - which stores the heat. It's not noisy but you can hear it when it runs. You do have to consider carefully where you put it.
We are planning to run it with solar panels which should work most of the year.
Geothermal (heat from the ground) is more popular here but more expensive. I don't think anyone heats with gas.

@RIPWalter how big is your garden though? I think that probably would fit in most london gardens? the gardens in my area are something like 6 m by 3m.

Can anyone tell me a bit more about district heating? Is that like street lights, where the council would oversee it but we would pay for it (presumably based on what we use, rather than everyone the same).

Question- if its a Edwardian maisonette with own garden, is it doable to install ASHP?This may help persuade DH who favours purpose built flats to opt for such maisonettes?

Like this: www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/58439976/
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/111092831#/?channel=RES_BUY

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Dh and I talked about heat pumps recently - he’s an engineer, so understands more about them than I do - and he thinks that a heat pump would be of very little use where we live in Scotland.

Plus he says it isn’t as easy as just replacing a boiler with a heat pump - the heating system would need to be adapted and changed, to make the best use of the heat pump, and this would not be cheap, or as easy as the article would seem to suggest.

We live over 300m up the side of a mountain in Snowdonia and our ASHP works fine.

The tank of water doesn't heat up and empty out. The heating and hot water pipes pass through the heated water in the tank and heat that way..

This will be interesting for the millions of renters out there.

I don’t understand why this isn’t standard on all new builds, they should have solar panels, they should be insulated to within an inch of their lives and have heat pump heating. They shouldn’t get planning unless it’s green.

@Xenia

Avoid them as long as you can. They won't work well. they will break down. They are less reliable than a gas boiler. They are very expensive. They may well make a continuous noise which could ruin people's gardens and sitting out there in silence listening to birds. I don't mind if humans die off on this planet a bit sooner (it is good for the planet if we do) so would rather we just stuck with our gas boilers.

Do you have one? Because this isn't our experience of our ASHP at all. The only part of your post I can relate to is the fact that they are expensive. However we were fortunate to get on the RHI and will be getting paid back more than £5k which is just too small an amount for the government to offer if they are serious about ASHP.

[quote onlychildhamster]@Notsurewheretogo can you do the air source pump? you would have a small garden probably? but would it not work well for you if your terrace is a period terrace?[/quote]
I have a decent garden. Long but not very wide. Maybe about 10 metres long. But there's also shared access past my back door.

I don't mind having one. Especially if lots of houses have them. Just can't think where it would go.

Honestly don't know what a period terrace is. It's an old miners terrace. 3 bedrooms upstairs. Small kitchen and small bathroom downstairs at the back and living room at the front. The boiler is in a closet in my bedroom, which is also at the front. Does that help?

We're getting one installed soon. In Scotland so more funding, also getting boiler replaced. The boiler is a back up which will kick in when the temp is below -5°c. It's a hybrid system that fits with existing radiators.

Our boiler needed replaced and this made most sense for us. I think newer models aren't as noisy and energy bills have significantly reduced for friends that have them.

We do have a cellar which currently houses the boiler. The heat pump will sit externally and link to boiler.

I have two good quality air sourced heat pumps and a ( unusually for NZ) well built, insulated home. IMO they would not create sufficient heat for most UK homes. We get on average about 10 frosts per year and it has never snowed where we are.

The issue is how inefficient the pumps become under -5 degrees C. They are great for cooling in the summer and we do use them for a little heating in the bedroom. We have a wetback log burner and this is the main source of heating and it heats our hot water ( electricity costs are very low in winter). I don’t know if you guys would get different heat pumps than those that are for sale in NZ.

Your home must have very good insulation, and double glazing, most homes in NZ are detached and we have larger decks/ gardens etc to put the outside unit in an inconspicuous place. I grew up in the UK and emigrated in my mid twenties ( so know the climate and I cannot see how they would work efficiently enough to heat older homes).

You would need a separate unit for your hot water - we use electric/ wetback. I would imagine for families living in a home electricity bills would go up and trying to keep an ambient temperature of 17 - 18 degrees would be a challenge unless the home is open plan.

Different sorts of units might become available, but. It will be imperative for people to have their rooms properly measured to ensure they get the correct size of heat pump and that it is maintained properly.

The unit in the living room cost around 3000 pounds and the master bedroom unit cost around 1500 pounds. Just to give an idea….

We replace out oil burner with a ASHP last year.
I don't recognise any of the negative scenarios here. The ashp is the same size as our old boiler, and we got rid of the oil tank. Cheaper than oil. Quieter and less smelly than the oil . I can stand next to the ashp and hear my neighbours boilers start up. The company we used arranged for us to visit another customer with one and theirs is also very quiet.
We did replace the hot water tank, but it was in poor condition. The new one is the same size.
We get RHI payments as well.

@Todayissunny

The tank of water doesn't heat up and empty out. The heating and hot water pipes pass through the heated water in the tank and heat that way..

Ah, that's good!

@Notsurewheretogo the terraces in my area are mainly victorian/edwardian (and sought after due to their period features) but there are some new build terraces which i am guessing have better insulation. The victorian terrace are all EPC D. I guess your terrace is an older terrace which is what i mean by period terrace.

Period terrace:
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114357146#/?channel=RES_BUY
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109043039#/?channel=RES_BUY

Vs new build
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114556727#/?channel=RES_BUY

I'm open to the idea of an air pump. My main concerns are the initial cost outlay to install and update radiators etc, and how effective it would be in Scottish winters. We don't have enough land for a ground based system.

To answer a few of the concerns/myths that always come up about ASHP.

"They are noisy" - ours is just outside DD downstairs bedroom window and noise has never been an issue (and I sleep in with DD sometimes, so it's not just DD being a heavy sleeper).

"They are unreliable" - we have not had a single issue with ours yet, but it has only been in for 15 months

"Difficult to get serviced" - we had less trouble getting an engineer to come out to service than we did when we had an oil boiler.

"They are ugly" - they are a bit, but no more than the external oil boiler we had before, and you can place things (plants) within 10cm of the sides, and Louvre covers are available for aesthetics/listed buildings (although don't know what if any impact they have on efficiency).

"They don't work in old houses" - we have a 1850s stone cottage with bedrooms in the attic space (so can't put in a full loft full of insulation), we have standard uPVC double glazing (but anything we replace we will upgrade to triple glazed), we don't have under floor heating as we don't have the ceiling height to sacrifice even a couple of centimeters, so have panel radiators throughout (all upgraded to larger radiators when ASHP was fitted).

"It won't work were I am because of the weather" ours works fine 300m up on a mountain in Snowdonia so I'm sure that they will be fine in most of not all of the UK.

"The fitting is problematic" - the entire system was fitted in a single day by an incredible team who turned up at 7am in about 5 different vans and left 12 hours later.

I wonder what Housing Associations (councils) will do for their homes in suburbia? We are one of a handful of privately-owned houses surrounded by a sea of HA semi-detached houses. Presumably if they decide to provide a 'village style' heating system, we could buy into that; what if they bulk buy and fit ASHP to the individual homes? That would be a massive exercise for them to undertake ...