Air source heat pumps - a bit off putting, or is it just me?

[FolornLawn]

I was surprised to see how big and ugly they are.

This article shows a picture of one, and I wouldn't want it in my small garden. Also the report says people will need room for a boiler and a water cylinder.

I'm quite surprised at how negatively I feel about the new plans. There's something about having to remodel bits of my house and garden that feels like an imposition, when I happily recycle, use washable sanitary pads and kitchen roll, go without a tumble dryer etc. Is it just me?

@RIPWalter appreciate you popping on. Can I ask a couple of questions: how well did your system cope with extreme weather, like the Beast from the East? Do you have underfloor heating or could you use existing radiators?

Lots of that is v positive, @RIPWalter. I think though, if you don't already have an external oil boiler, it feels like a backward step to put something that size in a small garden.

I've lived with oil before, and was very glad to get rid of it. As you say, noisy and smelly.

@EvilPea

This will be interesting for the millions of renters out there.

I don’t understand why this isn’t standard on all new builds, they should have solar panels, they should be insulated to within an inch of their lives and have heat pump heating. They shouldn’t get planning unless it’s green.

This!

I also don’t understand why it isn’t the law that all new builds and significant renovations/ extensions have to have solar panels, heat pumps, electric car chargers, proper insulation.

have panel radiators throughout (all upgraded to larger radiators when ASHP was fitted).

This alone would be a huge cost and we do not have space for larger radiators.

I don’t know why people think they’re noisy. Maybe they’ve been installed poorly.

The central heating pump (that pumps to the radiators like every other system) hums more loudly than the ASHP! It’s much quieter than our neighbour’s roaring oil boiler.

My house is 180 years old and has 5cm of insulation on every inside wall (behind plasterboard). It heats up to 18° using the ASHP within half an hour. I’m not a fan of insulation on the outside of buildings.

[quote riverpebbles]@80sMum but it is hugely impractical to retrofit existing houses with air circulation systems. Just not feasible, surely? I would love a forced air system like in North America but it just won't happen here in the UK except maybe new builds.

@ZZtop the air source heat pumps that cool as well rely on an air circulation system. If (as is usually the case in the UK) you have water-based radiators, the ASHPs do not cool as well.[/quote]
Houses in Maine tend to use baseboards which circulate water, not forced air.

We have an ASHP in our live in kitchen, the main unit is in the loft above and there's a box outside on the wall. It means we can heat our main room efficiently, quickly and cheaply, but we're on our second in 10 years. But it's not really big enough to heat the whole house (almost 300 sq m) so we also have old oil central heating and a woodburner. It has to be very cold indeed (well below 0C) before we'd use them all simultaneously.

But I do think all new build properties should have to reach much higher energy standards to gain planning consent.

@Hen2018

I don’t know why people think they’re noisy. Maybe they’ve been installed poorly.

The central heating pump (that pumps to the radiators like every other system) hums more loudly than the ASHP! It’s much quieter than our neighbour’s roaring oil boiler.

My house is 180 years old and has 5cm of insulation on every inside wall (behind plasterboard). It heats up to 18° using the ASHP within half an hour. I’m not a fan of insulation on the outside of buildings.

I've looked at internal insulation but don't want to make all my rooms smaller, plus major upheaval of having the stuff attached, plastering? Definitely painting. No thanks. I wouldn't even have anywhere to move furniture to while having work done.

I'm not against them in principle at all, and agree that solutions need to be found, but wonder how they will work in the area of London I live in which is mainly Victorian/ Edwardian housing stock, with tiny gardens and a lot of flat conversions.

Plus the prohibitive cost - I can see people getting this sort of thing installed if they are doing a major remodel/ renovation but I can see it costing upwards of £30k (and counting) to have our windows double-glazed to make it worth it (plus having to get planning to do that), get the ASHP fitted and then the radiators replaced - oh and no chance of anywhere to put a hot water tank.

@CovidCorvid well, I did have one room done at a time!

@CovidCorvid and meant to say, obviously you only do 5cm on outside walls. It’s impossible for all your rooms to have 4 outside walls so it’s not as bad as you might think.

@FolornLawn

Climate change and the human and environmental damage it’s caused is more off putting for heavens sake!

@ZZTopGuitarSolo that's interesting. I'd be delighted to get an ASHP that effectively did air cooling as well. Any more information you have, please pass it on!

They will be no use in most of the houses in Britain. I think that’s the main problem.

Mine was huge 2 m high and 1 m wide and 0.5 m deep at the far end of the garden. What people don’t tell you is the bloody noise - even in summer windows open you can see the fan whirring and hear it. Electricity didn’t seem much cheaper and it was a new house with modern insulation the worse bit was servicing £300 minimum and a 6 month wait and that if you could find anyone to service it - honestly shockingly bad

We had a ground source heat pump fitted 12 years ago - that is definitely an air source pump. Our loop runs around a field and is about 1200m long and about 8ft underground. You can use a borehole instead but they tend to cost more to install. We love ours but it cost approximately £45K, so definitely not cheap.

I’ve just walked round my house listening and the extractor fan and the kettle were drowning all other noise out.

Once they had stopped, I still couldn’t hear the ASHP which is directly below the kitchen window. If you stand directly in front of it, there is a noise like a quiet fridge. Not unpleasant at all.

Oh and they're very popular in Scandinavia - not exactly known for their warm winters.

evil yy. Every new build should have them from now on. Along with driveway parking and charging for electric vehicles, grey water recycling, solar panels etc. I could do a huge list here

[quote riverpebbles]@ZZTopGuitarSolo that's interesting. I'd be delighted to get an ASHP that effectively did air cooling as well. Any more information you have, please pass it on![/quote]
Yes I'm already finding this thread so useful as I feel like I'm starting to know what questions to ask! I've asked DH to get us a few quotes (he's in construction so he's more knowledgable than me). Will also talk to my neighbour about how his works.

I'm seeing mentions of 'mini-splits' on the local groups where people are talking about heat pumps, but I'm not at all knowledgable so I'm not sure what that means :-)

Yes I would like to know that too @ZZTopGuitarSolo! I have a tall townhouse and getting the heating right in different zones has always been a pain. Heat rises so the lower levels can be chilly, while the top floor is roasty toasty. Maybe splits would enable me to heat different zones according to a different thermostat? Or maybe I have misunderstood what this means?

I was a bit put off by the images in the news articles too. Reading this thread is making me more apprehensive as I'm very noise sensitive and would hate to have a noisy pump whirring away. Or hear a whole street of them.

I'd add that where I live is so fecking cold, we spend a fortune on heating our already-well-insulated houses, which probably contributes to heat pumps being increasingly popular here despite the initially high outlay.

We also don't have much in the way of natural gas in my state, so most houses are currently heating via oil, propane, pellets, or woodstoves. Solar is definitely becoming more and more popular here.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo how are people heating with solar? That doesn’t exist in the UK, except for heating water for washing.

The current gas network and appliances can cope with up to 20% hydrogen. There are a number of challenges though. Firstly hydrogen is the smallest molecule in the universe, it's so small it is incredibly difficult to contain and transport without very significant losses. Secondly metals, including gas pipes, can suffer from hydrogen embrittlement, whereby the hydrogen permeates into the metal and weakens it. Thirdly unless the hydrogen is either pressurised to insane levels or cooled to almost absolute zero the energy density just isn't high enough.

Hydrogen is going to play a significant role in aerospace and perhaps some public transport but nuclear and renewables are the principle solution for distributed networks.