Air source heat pumps - a bit off putting, or is it just me?

[FolornLawn]

I was surprised to see how big and ugly they are.

This article shows a picture of one, and I wouldn't want it in my small garden. Also the report says people will need room for a boiler and a water cylinder.

I'm quite surprised at how negatively I feel about the new plans. There's something about having to remodel bits of my house and garden that feels like an imposition, when I happily recycle, use washable sanitary pads and kitchen roll, go without a tumble dryer etc. Is it just me?

@Hmmph @EvilPea solar panels aren't really a great solution at a domestic level, the grid tie components are a much larger portion of the cost compared to a large scale installation.

It is mind boggling though that consecutive governments have done very little to incorporate sustainability measures into either new build or extension building regs.

We afre having an ASHP fitted in November. We have had wet UFH installed and are in the process of putting up internal wall insulation. (Doing the wall insulation ourselves because cannot find ANY companies that do it). Have insulated under the floorboards and installed triple glazing. But why is VAT on insulation charged at 20%? All of this is costing a fortune (we live in a rural area and do not have gas) I begrudge 20% of most of the cost going to the Govt when it is for a green heating system.

Just had an air source heat pump fitted.just gone through the grant process too. Loft insulated and windows done.
I appreciate this is expensive.. but their was no central heating in our home so we had a fresh choice.
No noise... and omg so warm. A constant temp it only has been coming on in the morning and goes off when desired heat. Water lovely and hot.I'm so happy with it. But ... what flaff. Three weeks at least with the radiators and plumbing and so on. Thank god it's done.
I think it's brilliant but .. such an expensive outlay and I can't imagine how the government can expect people to do this. Also in terraced housing would be difficult. And yes the cylinder is very tall and could go in the loft.
Not sure what my point is. It's a good option if you can afford the outlay and have the space but on my own with three children before I met my partner.. no way that would of been an option for me.

I go in the garden and only hear birds. There is no way I want to hear my or anyone else's heat pumps.

Thanks @Daftasabroom, that’s very interesting.

I was just listening to R4, where there was a discussion about this. A contributor on there referred to getting your house fully insulated. My house is about 20 years old, how do I know if it’s “fully insulated”?

Sorry couldn't go in loft .. too tall

How much noise do they make exactly? We got a pump to improve water pressure in our house and honestly I wish we hadn't because of the racket it makes

[quote Cascascascas]@FolornLawn

Climate change and the human and environmental damage it’s caused is more off putting for heavens sake![/quote]
Never said it wasn’t.

[quote KittyBurrito]@RIPWalter appreciate you popping on. Can I ask a couple of questions: how well did your system cope with extreme weather, like the Beast from the East? Do you have underfloor heating or could you use existing radiators?[/quote]
We didn't have the ashp for the beast from the east, although this winter was by far the longest sustained cold period we have had in the 7 years living here and it coped fine. We had 2 weeks in January when it was like an alpine ski resort were we live (there was even a police road block on our road to try and stop people playing on the snow in lockdown), and the ashp was running nearly constantly but the electricity bill was less than we expected (we were a little apprehensive!!).

One thing I should have put in my post is that if you are someone that keeps your house heated to 23C all the time then ASHP will probably disappoint. To run one efficiently you need to keep it at a nice steady temperature below about 21C and not allow any sudden jumps in temperature at this is when it struggles (ours thermostat is set at 19C day time and 15C at night).

I have a heated faux fur throw to snuggle under on the sofa of I'm feeling a bit chilly in the evening.

I absolutely promise I cannot hear it in garden or house. It's nothing... far quieter then I thought

And we had it on for a couple of days during day to test this and listen out and basically get used to it.

@MakkaPakkas

How much noise do they make exactly? We got a pump to improve water pressure in our house and honestly I wish we hadn't because of the racket it makes

Ours is just outside DDs downstairs bedroom window and it isn't an issue. Even in the summer if we have the window open then the fan we put on in the bedroom is fair louder. When out in the garden I hardly notice it is running until I get a blast of cold air as I walk past it.

YANBU.

They are big, bulky, you'll have to replace all of your radiators, make room for a hot water cylinder. No more hot water on demand like you get with a combi boiler.

Let;s hope they do a shit lot of research to make them more attractive and practical.

[quote Hen2018]@ZZTopGuitarSolo how are people heating with solar? That doesn’t exist in the UK, except for heating water for washing.[/quote]
They're not heating with solar - that's not what I meant to imply, but perhaps it came across that way. They're heating using oil, propane, pellets, or woodstoves, but they're also looking at other ways of reducing their costs generally in terms of energy - and solar is one of those methods.

We have a deep deep distrust of our only electricity distribution company here, which is contributing towards the move towards solar.

For anyone concerned about aesthetics...

@gogohm

My neighbours are getting one next month, costing £9k, we already have a tank and insulation thankfully. Sound proofing the room it's in sounds necessary!

That's the same sort as e have. We've had it for 8 years now and it's been fantastic. It was fucking awful to have installed (took 3 days, total system replaced inside) but it's been so worth it. Our fan isn't in the garden, it's down the side on the srive, so I've never heard it. We've got a tank where the old tank was. It looks no difrferent to our old system.

The expense, though.

Take our house - bog standard turn of the 20th century terrace.

Garden / yard too small to install ground source pump for 3 bedroom house.

Installing an air source heat pump - upwards of £8,000.

This is no good without replacing inadequate double glazing (9 windows and 2 doors), insulating all exterior walls and replacing all radiators with larger ones (reducing wall space available)

Internal wall insulation, at least £8,000
Removing or insulating chimney breasts - ??
Replacing suspended wooden floors with concrete and insulating them - ??
Insulating roof (rather than an attic floor, so that attic is still usable for storage) - ??
Replacing radiators - ??
Reinstating or replacing plumbing and electrics, bathroom and kitchen fittings, fitted kitchen - ??
Reinstating features like skirting boards, coving - ??
Redecorating - ??

If installing internal insulation, reinstating / installing new kitchen cabinets, shelving and anything else attached to internal walls will be more difficult.

Cost of moving and storing furniture and belongings whilst insulation is installed - ??
Rental costs as house is likely to be impossible to live in - ??

Since Victorian / Edwardian houses are designed to be leaky in order to let damp air out (hence air bricks) sealing them up will mean having to have numerous extractor fans installed - ??

Maintenance of pump - ?? per year

I may have overlooked some things.

I can definitely see why in the UK, if you already have an efficient gas heating system, you'd be reluctant to shell out for a heat pump system.

I do wonder if the ever-warming climate will help push people towards them though, if they can be used for a/c as well as heating.

If all our houses were heavily insulated and triple glazed and had no opening windows but instead had an air circulation system, the energy used to heat our homes would be next to none.

I don't want to live in a home where I can't open windows.
Indoor air pollution from VOCs, anyone?

How funny when there is so much concurrent talk about "Ventilation! we need more ventilation!" (covid)

I really care about climate change - have an electric car etc.

However these things seem like a really rubbish solution. There must be a better way to heat homes and water than these (1) expensive (2) large (3) noisy (4) not particularly hot or responsive things that are impractical for a large number of homes.

What is wrong with green electric heating? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to attach some solar panels on the roof and heat the house and water that way?

@Hmmph

I really care about climate change - have an electric car etc.

However these things seem like a really rubbish solution. There must be a better way to heat homes and water than these (1) expensive (2) large (3) noisy (4) not particularly hot or responsive things that are impractical for a large number of homes.

What is wrong with green electric heating? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to attach some solar panels on the roof and heat the house and water that way?

Because the days when it is glorious sunshine are generally not the days when centrally heating your home is a high priority. If you want solar to provide for you through the grim dull midwinter then you'd need a battery storage system, which would be bulky. Solar panels aren't exactly cheap. ASHP are not noisy.

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

Dh and I talked about heat pumps recently - he’s an engineer, so understands more about them than I do - and he thinks that a heat pump would be of very little use where we live in Scotland.

Plus he says it isn’t as easy as just replacing a boiler with a heat pump - the heating system would need to be adapted and changed, to make the best use of the heat pump, and this would not be cheap, or as easy as the article would seem to suggest.

Exactly this, it’s not just a case of swapping it for a gas boiler, people are being misled.

@RIPWalter

Sorry it won't let me quote you for some reason but

"not allow any sudden jumps in temperature"

Does this mean they can't be turned on and off conveniently? Because that seems prohibitively expensive compared to having gas heat on briefly in the morning and evening and otherwise not in use.

There is a house near me that has an air source heat pump. There is a public footpath which runs to the side of their house and when I walk down it I can hear the heat pump whirring away from quite a way off. I always think their neighbours must be very unhappy with the noise as there is no way the neighbours to the side and back of them could be in their gardens without hearing it. The houses are all small semis and the gardens are quite small.

I just don’t see how this is going to work in the UK, where hundreds of thousands of houses are terraced with tiny yards or gardens and nowhere to put a hot water tank. Our house has a loft conversion and hardly any storage, where would the tank go? I am genuinely all in favour in theory but they need to come up with solutions that actually work for the housing stock.

Likewise electric cars - how are you meant to charge a car if you have no driveway? What’s the plan for that?